This makes sense for specific use case computers, specialty ones, etc. So it'll be adopted. And because of economies of scale it'll push into actual desktop computers and their mobos. Having to dissipate all that heat on/in the mobo will be terrible for actual desktop computers. But it'll happen anyway because it's better for corporations and the desktop market doesn't drive their decisions.
Intel is changing the future of power supplies with its ATX12VO spec
11–20 of 188 posts
Re: Intel is changing the future of power supplies with its ATX12VO spec
#12Earlier quoted context omitted.
pretty much all modern boards use DC/DC power stages from 12v, even for 5v and 3.3v stuff.
Indeed, found that for myself when got into mobo design. ATX 5V is really unsuitable for USB power, and can play tricks on you. Similarly, 3.3V from PSU is useless at powering 3.3V logic. You have to do power staging on board to guarantee that PCI and i2c stuff turns on after the bridge/soc. Some PSUs don't follow reset timings, or don't do them at all on standby rail. So if you do ATX power by the book, you may end…
> ATX 5V is really unsuitable for USB power, and can play tricks on you.
Would you mind elaborating on this?
Re: Intel is changing the future of power supplies with its ATX12VO spec
#13I wonder how easy this would make server local UPS systems. A battery with a single buck/boost converter should be enough as a power supply. Just need to add a mains fed charge circuit.
Probably would allow very cheap power supplies w/built-in UPSes. 12V±5% voltage is the allowed range.
±5% would not be that easy with current spikes from CPU and GPU.
It's 300W-400W load going to near zero and back within microseconds.
Re: Intel is changing the future of power supplies with its ATX12VO spec
#14Earlier quoted context omitted.
pretty much all modern boards use DC/DC power stages from 12v, even for 5v and 3.3v stuff.
Indeed, found that for myself when got into mobo design. ATX 5V is really unsuitable for USB power, and can play tricks on you. Similarly, 3.3V from PSU is useless at powering 3.3V logic. You have to do power staging on board to guarantee that PCI and i2c stuff turns on after the bridge/soc. Some PSUs don't follow reset timings, or don't do them at all on standby rail. So if you do ATX power by the book, you may end…
>ATX 5V is really unsuitable for USB power, and can play tricks on you.
Why? I don't think current motherboard duplicate 5V converter.
>you may end up with improperly inited board, and 3.3V ICs booting up before the CPU.
Why it cannot just hold reset line for these chips high until CPU started?
Re: Intel is changing the future of power supplies with its ATX12VO spec
#15Why does this still have 10 pins? 2 pins would be plenty. 12v Power, Ground, and an overlaid capacitively coupled 2 way data comms running at a few hundred khz to send and receive status messages, fan speeds, model/serial numbers, firmware/ temperatures, on/off commands, etc.
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Re: Intel is changing the future of power supplies with its ATX12VO spec
#16[deleted]
Re: Intel is changing the future of power supplies with its ATX12VO spec
#17I wonder how easy this would make server local UPS systems. A battery with a single buck/boost converter should be enough as a power supply. Just need to add a mains fed charge circuit.
It would be awesome if they speced an external 12V connector on the power supply that just goes to a battery - no electronics.
Then every power supply could be its own UPS, and handle charging the battery.
It would need to be a pretty fat wire, but that's handleable.
Re: Intel is changing the future of power supplies with its ATX12VO spec
#18Why does this still have 10 pins? 2 pins would be plenty. 12v Power, Ground, and an overlaid capacitively coupled 2 way data comms running at a few hundred khz to send and receive status messages, fan speeds, model/serial numbers, firmware/ temperatures, on/off commands, etc.
> 2 pins would be plenty
No. You are gonna burn wires.
Re: Intel is changing the future of power supplies with its ATX12VO spec
#1912V makes so much more sense to be sending around - the losses at lower voltages are rough. It would be nice to replace legacy molex connectors with a more modern standard, however.
> It would be nice to replace legacy molex connectors with a more modern standard
Any example of the modern one? I personally have no issues with the current one. I am not sure if those molex connectors should be called as legacy.
Re: Intel is changing the future of power supplies with its ATX12VO spec
#20Earlier quoted context omitted.
Indeed, found that for myself when got into mobo design. ATX 5V is really unsuitable for USB power, and can play tricks on you. Similarly, 3.3V from PSU is useless at powering 3.3V logic. You have to do power staging on board to guarantee that PCI and i2c stuff turns on after the bridge/soc. Some PSUs don't follow reset timings, or don't do them at all on standby rail. So if you do ATX power by the book, you may end…
> ATX 5V is really unsuitable for USB power, and can play tricks on you. Would you mind elaborating on this?
Poor transient response.
Ringing on some PSUs.
Out of spec ripple on most PSUs.