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Trading halted as U.S. stocks plummet

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Re: Trading halted as U.S. stocks plummet

#561

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US fertility rate is approx. 1.8, well below population sustainability. If it weren't for immigration (a political policy question), the US would have negative population growth too.

We’re about to discover that uncontrolled immigration != societal regeneration, unfortunately.

Immigration is more controlled today than it was in the past.

Re: Trading halted as U.S. stocks plummet

#562
post #331

Genuine question: They can just do that ? Issue a trading halt because they don't like the direction it's going ? > “There’s a reason why they have those circuit breakers -- it’s to give people time to come back from panicked feelings,” Seems strange that the market is kinda able to be manipulated like that. I'm not saying this is a bad move, just surprised that someone can do it.

> Genuine question: They can just do that ? Issue a trading halt because they don't like the direction it's going ? This is a dangerous game, in that it is indeed revealing the artificial, make-belief, nature of financial markets.

Were people under the belief that financial markets grew on trees or were formed by lithification?

Re: Trading halted as U.S. stocks plummet

#564

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay thats fine, but who implements/decides these circuit breakers ? And what purpose to they serve only to limit a mass sell off ? Nice point about only 2 daily. But still seems crazy.

AFAIK people can still trade in private, just not on the NYSE. So don't worry, it's only us regular guys that get screwed. Big firms can still contact each other to make deals.

The idea that the little guys largely have a chance actively trading in a fast moving market like today’s where they are gonna be crushed by algos is ridiculous to begin with.

If anything this is helps the little guy, by not completely crushing their stock value, and hurts the big guys who can outlast huge swings (something little guys cannot).

Re: Trading halted as U.S. stocks plummet

#565
post #465

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When China put 10% of the worlds population on travel restrictions, a put on SPY with a strike of 300 expiring this Friday was 29 cents. The optimism is frankly unbelievable.

A few weeks ago, I spent $730 to buy 73 SPY put option contracts expiring this Friday with a strike of $270, so about 10 cents per share. Unbelievable. I've been selling them over the last week and just finished getting out today with a realized gain of about $30k. Wish I had put $50k in instead of $1k, but I suppose that's always the lament when an ultra-risky trade goes your way :)

Teach me your ways. Literature ?

Re: Trading halted as U.S. stocks plummet

#566

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. This is just one of several places where the laws systematically favor the bulls.

Because bulls and bears aren’t equal. The laws should be favored towards not destroying the economy needlessly.

Because extremely bull markets are a strong indicator of a bubble the laws should be equal to prevent bubble bubble bubbling.

Re: Trading halted as U.S. stocks plummet

#567
post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

* It's very difficult to sell a market to zero, but impossible to buy it to infinity.

Has any stock or financial instrument ever been valued at infinity? I don't know enough about finance to rule that out and it seems unlikely but at least possible. For instance here is a toy example of unbounded value: Consider a market for a stock in which the only market participants are two bots with the behavior that they trade the stock back and forth at an asymptotically increasing price. The buys are backed by…

At what point does a finite increase of the price turn it from a finite number into infinity?

Re: Trading halted as U.S. stocks plummet

#568

Genuine question: They can just do that ? Issue a trading halt because they don't like the direction it's going ? > “There’s a reason why they have those circuit breakers -- it’s to give people time to come back from panicked feelings,” Seems strange that the market is kinda able to be manipulated like that. I'm not saying this is a bad move, just surprised that someone can do it.

It turns out nobody really trusts the "free market" :)

I trust electricity to be generally a safe and efficient way to improve my life, but I also sure as hell want circuit breakers in place to keep my house from burning down.

Re: Trading halted as U.S. stocks plummet

#569
post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the end game with this strategy? If you sell the puts today to capture the profits, do you also sell your equities? If you don't sell your equities isn't there a chance the slide further? If you hold the puts to maturity why buy them at all?

The end game is to save the value of my account without having to sell holdings I want to keep long term for tax reasons. I'm up 8% for the year instead of down 15%.

Your puts are going to expire at some point, what after that? you sell all your holding after expiration? or you buy more puts? puts are expensive, I started 2 weeks ago and paid 7% of my portfolio in premium just as insurance.

Re: Trading halted as U.S. stocks plummet

#570
post #465

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When China put 10% of the worlds population on travel restrictions, a put on SPY with a strike of 300 expiring this Friday was 29 cents. The optimism is frankly unbelievable.

That’s not optimism. That’s options pricing driven by implied volatility and the current price.

One of us is thinking about implied volatility wrong. My understanding is that it's not a measure of actual volatility, of either the underlying security or the option itself. Rather, it's a measure of how much the price reflects expected volatility in the underlying security. So in a security with ultra-low expected volatility (IV), options that are far out of the money will have much lower premiums than those where high volatility is expected in the underlying security.

In this way, the poster you're replying to is right. The reason premiums were so low was that IV was so low, but that was because no one expected the S&P 500 to drop from 3350 to 2750 in a few weeks. The IV is pretty high now, but it's still bouncing around much more than the actual volatility of the SPY index itself. I've seen everything from 30-150% over the past few weeks.

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