Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

“Just walk out” technology by Amazon

justwalkout.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

151–160 of 769 posts

Re: “Just walk out” technology by Amazon

#151

Post by txcwpalpha »

ForHackernews wrote: post #119
txcwpalpha wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I was not commenting on the thing that the quote was intending to talk about. Exactly, and that's the definition of a strawman. Again, I do agree with your larger points about privacy, but the presentation of your argument rubbed me the wrong way.

It absolutely is not the definition of a strawman. Reading between the lines of marketing (or any text, really) is an important element of critical thinking. There's no rule that says I have to only talk about what your commercial wants me to talk about. Are you really suggesting we should just uncritically nod along with whatever facile ideas are fed to us by an advert? <-- (Psst...this is actually a strawman)

"A straw man (or strawman) is a form of argument and an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not presented by that opponent."

Saying "but you may as well" gives the impression that you refuted the point the quote was making, but in reality you were refuting a point that, by your own admission, the quote was not making. That is a strawman.

Reading between the lines of a commercial is fine, and encouraged. Dismissing the point of the commercial entirely because of a semi-related tangent is not.

If you meant it differently (perhaps not to dismiss the quote's "argument" but instead to just bring up the privacy implications separately) that's great and I'll take your word for it (and even agree with it), I just found your original quote to be saying something different.

edit: I see that you are not the original poster of the comment. This comment was meant for that person, not you. Apologies.

Re: “Just walk out” technology by Amazon

#152

Post by timfrietas »

nborwankar wrote: post #132

Amazon will have some record of all the transactions, at least initially to help in the transition, and that means it can figure out what’s selling best where, then undercut the stores online. Allowing Amazon inside your transactions is not a strategy for long term survival. Having said that it’s hard to see what other options retailers have when their competitors start using this tech and improving margins. High end…

And undercut them offline in Amazon Go, Whole Foods and whatever other physical grocery initiatives are coming

Re: “Just walk out” technology by Amazon

#153

Post by bytematic »

nck4222 wrote: post #63

My biggest problem with this is that from what I can tell, the only way to know how much you're going to be automatically charged (as well as what items the tech thinks you're purchasing), is to go to a kiosk in the store and get a receipt. Which seems to completely defeat the convenience of just walking out in the first place. I wouldn't feel comfortable just walking out without knowing how much I'm going to be char…

No way does that completely defeat the convenience. To just walk up and put your email in, is even much easier than ordering at kiosks at something like mcdonalds

Re: “Just walk out” technology by Amazon

#154

Post by saber6 »

emiliobumachar wrote: post #100
nck4222 wrote: post #63

My biggest problem with this is that from what I can tell, the only way to know how much you're going to be automatically charged (as well as what items the tech thinks you're purchasing), is to go to a kiosk in the store and get a receipt. Which seems to completely defeat the convenience of just walking out in the first place. I wouldn't feel comfortable just walking out without knowing how much I'm going to be char…

If there are enough kiosks to avoid a line, always getting the receipt is still a huge improvement over scanning, even if it falsifies the "just walk out" bit. Another potential alternative for the anxious (and I definitely include myself) is an app showing up-to-the-second billing state on the smartphone screen. At a glance, usability issues seem hard but doable.

> Another potential alternative for the anxious (and I definitely include myself) is an app showing up-to-the-second billing state on the smartphone screen.

That sounds like an awesome idea!

You just load up your cart, peek at your (account-linked) smartphone, and see what your total will before heading to your car.

Re: “Just walk out” technology by Amazon

#155

Post by tialaramex »

donarb wrote: post #141
SamuelAdams wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the United States taxes are not included on the sticker price. As a result adding up the total price of a purchase can be tricky. However, I don't think this technology will be used extensively by people who purchase a large quantity of products at a time. Instead, this will be catered to the times when someone needs to pick up 5 or less things at a store. In this instance, these customers are not typically price-…

In certain places, tax is not added for certain goods. For example, in Seattle food is not taxed, unless it is prepared, like fast food or deli counters.

This is also routine in Europe where tax is included in the advertised price. Here for example the price shown for your hilarious Xmas sweater is inclusive of tax, the price shown for your toddler's equally hilarious sweater is not, because it's tax exempt (clothing for kids isn't taxed) and so in both cases the displayed price is the price you'll pay.

We added a sugar tax, so the sticker price for beverages like original Coke went up, but similar zero sugar products (Coke Zero, Pepsi Max) did not. Of course some stores just raised the before-tax price to capture the difference as profit, and others just eliminated sugary drinks. So... a mixed result.

The EU's focus is that consumers always pay what the sticker price says. So, no "plus tax", no "shipping fees not included" on items that unavoidably have to be shipped to you, no "service fees" no "card fees" nothing like that. I think even if you don't actively like this, you can see the point of this approach.

Would it be easier to get consumers angry about taxes if the tax wasn't "baked in" ? Maybe. But it's not as though it has proved impossible to campaign against, for example, tax on tampons or even toilet paper.

Re: “Just walk out” technology by Amazon

#156

Post by nimblegorilla »

nck4222 wrote: post #63

My biggest problem with this is that from what I can tell, the only way to know how much you're going to be automatically charged (as well as what items the tech thinks you're purchasing), is to go to a kiosk in the store and get a receipt. Which seems to completely defeat the convenience of just walking out in the first place. I wouldn't feel comfortable just walking out without knowing how much I'm going to be char…

> I wouldn't feel comfortable just walking out without knowing how much I'm going to be charged, so this tech is essentially useless to me.

I'm sure they can make an app for that.

Re: “Just walk out” technology by Amazon

#157

Post by Hnrobert42 »

askafriend wrote: post #144
JohnFen wrote: post #3

> In Just Walk Out-enabled stores, shoppers enter the store using a credit card. They don't need to download an app or create an Amazon account. But you may as well. By giving them a CC# you're allowing Amazon to spy on you anyway -- and that's not even mentioning the copious surveillance in such stores in the form of cameras and behavior detection. > If shoppers need a receipt, they can visit a kiosk in the store an…

> But you may as well. By giving them a CC# you're allowing Amazon to spy on you anyway -- and that's not even mentioning the copious surveillance in such stores in the form of cameras and behavior detection. Ha! They already have a decade of my purchase history from being a Prime customer and I shop using an Amazon Credit Card. They've got everything they need and I don't mind. Few people would be bothered by someth…

Ah, something that tracks you based on appearance, and can later do so outside stores, is very different from a keychain fob that you can register with 555-867-5309.

I, for one, won’t ever go in an Amazon Go store. If other stores implement this tech without an opt-out, I will either start shopping in a ski mask or go without.

Re: “Just walk out” technology by Amazon

#158

Post by Hnrobert42 »

shadowgovt wrote: post #61
JohnFen wrote: post #3

> In Just Walk Out-enabled stores, shoppers enter the store using a credit card. They don't need to download an app or create an Amazon account. But you may as well. By giving them a CC# you're allowing Amazon to spy on you anyway -- and that's not even mentioning the copious surveillance in such stores in the form of cameras and behavior detection. > If shoppers need a receipt, they can visit a kiosk in the store an…

Yes, if you don't trust the retailer with your privacy, you shouldn't use their store. That rule applies in general. Even 7-11 has security cameras capturing faces of people entering and leaving the store.

Security cameras are different from facial recognition systems.

Re: “Just walk out” technology by Amazon

#159

Post by withinboredom »

grandmczeb wrote: post #128
nck4222 wrote: post #63

My biggest problem with this is that from what I can tell, the only way to know how much you're going to be automatically charged (as well as what items the tech thinks you're purchasing), is to go to a kiosk in the store and get a receipt. Which seems to completely defeat the convenience of just walking out in the first place. I wouldn't feel comfortable just walking out without knowing how much I'm going to be char…

Unfortunately the current system doesn’t exactly work in real time (sometimes it can take a while for a receipt to appear in the app) but I don’t think that’s a fundamental limitation. I also don’t think this is a major concern though; so long as there’s still price tags (which there are) and it’s easy to dispute mistakes in the app I don’t think most people will really have a problem with it.

I think the price tag only makes sense when tax is included on them. Things are taxed differently in different places, and sometimes people are tax exempt (in the US). But without the tax on the price tag, it’s literally impossible to know how much you’re going to pay (this is why I love living in the EU).

Re: “Just walk out” technology by Amazon

#160

Post by [deleted] »

derefr wrote: post #149
rhino369 wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even for costco, most employees aren't cashiers--which is only job really affected by this tech.

Don’t forget “loss prevention officers” (i.e. security.) In the bad parts of my city, and especially at night, convenience store staffing is 50% security (= one clerk at the counter; one guard at the door.) And that staffing, unlike the clerks, can’t be done on minimum wage.

[deleted]
Post reply on HN