The market was up over 30% last year, but GDP growth was certainly not 30%.
GDP is not a perfect indicator.
That much is clear.
Trading halted as U.S. stocks plummet
301–310 of 1001 posts
Re: Trading halted as U.S. stocks plummet
#302Earlier quoted context omitted.
Also because of algorithmic trading. You don't want to get into an accelerated get-out-now spiral.
This sounds like something we should teach the algorithms.
Heh, yeah but it's an adversarial problem. Do you assume the other bots are going to "do the right thing" and not intensify the panic? Maybe not. Maybe you just act on immediate information and try to optimize your position for the next few milliseconds.
Re: Trading halted as U.S. stocks plummet
#303Genuine question: They can just do that ? Issue a trading halt because they don't like the direction it's going ? > “There’s a reason why they have those circuit breakers -- it’s to give people time to come back from panicked feelings,” Seems strange that the market is kinda able to be manipulated like that. I'm not saying this is a bad move, just surprised that someone can do it.
"They" don't do anything - this is called a circuit breaker, and is automatically triggered. There are three breakers: L1 - 7% down before 3:25pm - 15 minute halt L2 - 13% down before 3:25pm - 15 minute halt L3 - 20% down - halted for the remainder of the day Only a single L1 and a single L2 breaker can occur in a single day, e.g. the market falling below 7%, rising, then falling again will not trigger a second L1 br…
Do they have circuit breakers in the other direction?
Re: Trading halted as U.S. stocks plummet
#304Re: Trading halted as U.S. stocks plummet
#305Earlier quoted context omitted.
Okay thats fine, but who implements/decides these circuit breakers ? And what purpose to they serve only to limit a mass sell off ? Nice point about only 2 daily. But still seems crazy.
AFAIK people can still trade in private, just not on the NYSE. So don't worry, it's only us regular guys that get screwed. Big firms can still contact each other to make deals.
Having worked for one of the (smaller) big firms, and had a chance to watch from the sidelines and seen how days like this work: No, these circuit breakers don't screw the regular guys. They discourage the regular guys from screwing themselves.
There are a lot of firms whose core business strategy is to keep a level head and take advantage of people who panic and (over)react on days like this. They get damn rich doing it, too.
Re: Trading halted as U.S. stocks plummet
#306Genuine question: They can just do that ? Issue a trading halt because they don't like the direction it's going ? > “There’s a reason why they have those circuit breakers -- it’s to give people time to come back from panicked feelings,” Seems strange that the market is kinda able to be manipulated like that. I'm not saying this is a bad move, just surprised that someone can do it.
It's not meant to manipulate the market, it's meant to stop a flash crash from automated trading. It gives people time to recalibrate their algorithms if something is faulty. If the fundamentals are such that it should continue to go down, then it will continue to go down.
Re: Trading halted as U.S. stocks plummet
#307Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why was or is the market in need of a correction? What is your evidence for that statement?
At this point every time something positive happens in the market: "It needs a correction" Everytime something negative happens: "It's just a cycle" Maybe we don't have the best economic system where instability is built into its core & foundation?
I'm having trouble seeing how those two positions/statements contradict each other. If markets need a correction, and then they get it, that is part of the business cycle.
Also, "at this point" is at the point of one of the most runaway bull markets of all time. IMO, the correction has been needed for a couple years now. I didn't have nor did I see that sentiment on HN 5+ years back.
Re: Trading halted as U.S. stocks plummet
#308Earlier quoted context omitted.
No one will be able to time this. We don't even know if this is the start of a [global?] recession or depression. If you haven't already, put your retirement into bonds and hold on. Honestly it might be a good idea to grab some cash from the bank to keep at home - bank runs are not outside the realm of possibility, although we have credit cards and other internet based payment methods now so it's probably less of a c…
Please don't shuffle your retirement investments based on market volatility. Best thing is just do nothing and ride it out.
This isn't market volatility. The is a global geopolitical event exposing the weakness of the US and global markets that people have been warning about for something like 3 years.
Some treasury notes have dropped by more than 30%. We're years overdue for a cyclical recession. The fed has little room to lower rates. I could go on but the point is this is the closest we've been to a Black swan in decades.
Re: Trading halted as U.S. stocks plummet
#309Buy S&P puts as a hedge to save your account in times of extreme volatility. I had 270 strike puts for April I bought on Friday for $6 that jumped to $15 today and got my account to break even even though the value of my stocks went down.
What fraction of your account value would you have lost if those puts expired (i.e. if the market had not declined)?
Well they wouldn't have expired until 4/17, so even if the market didn't go down today or went up it wouldn't have dropped anywhere close to $0.
Re: Trading halted as U.S. stocks plummet
#310Earlier quoted context omitted.
> If you haven't already, put your retirement into bonds and hold on. Are you advising to sell equities right after they've taken a beating? Sounds awfully close to "buy high, sell low".
If you look at the 100 year history of the DJIA, there's still a LOONG way for it to potentially drop. It's about minimizing risk. Those with high risk tolerance I would advise to buy now, but be prepared to lose everything. If you're close to retirement you lose nothing by pulling out now.
> Those with high risk tolerance I would advise to buy now, but be prepared to lose everything. If you're close to retirement you lose nothing by pulling out now.
If your risk tolerance can't handle what's happening, your asset allocation was already wrong. Trying to "fix" that now, as a response to this downturn, would very likely be a mistake.