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Trading halted as U.S. stocks plummet

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Re: Trading halted as U.S. stocks plummet

#231
post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without going into too much detail, short answer is yes. Most people don't seem to know how far away current setup is from 'free market' touted in school. It is weird given that this information is not hidden. It is just not widely spread.

These rules are completely in keeping with the free market.

Would you care to elaborate? I would argue that guard rails and controlled falls are in opposition to actual free market. The qualifier 'completely' seems misplaced.

Re: Trading halted as U.S. stocks plummet

#232
post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Only a single L1 or L2 breaker can occur in a single day. I don't follow. You'd hit 7% before 13%, so how would L2 ever execute?

Sorry - I meant that neither L1 nor L2 can trigger twice in a day, E.g. down 8%, up 2%, down 9% does not trigger a second L1 breaker.

> neither L1 nor L2 can trigger twice in a day

This phrasing makes sense. Thanks!

Re: Trading halted as U.S. stocks plummet

#233

To be honest , the market was in dire need for correction, BUT wonder where we will be when companies starts reporting their quarterly results and impact of that. So far this looked more like a correction than a precursor to the recession. To make things worse, OPEC dropped bombs which spread the wildfire further..

Oil dropping because an opec monopoly explodes is good news for most of the economy (outside of oil industries obviously). But a drop in crude because of demand is bad for everybody.

It's not good for our emissions budgets either, but I guess we can worry about it after the coronavirus mess is behind us.

Re: Trading halted as U.S. stocks plummet

#234

Genuine question: They can just do that ? Issue a trading halt because they don't like the direction it's going ? > “There’s a reason why they have those circuit breakers -- it’s to give people time to come back from panicked feelings,” Seems strange that the market is kinda able to be manipulated like that. I'm not saying this is a bad move, just surprised that someone can do it.

One view of the circuit breakers that Matt Levine just discussed this morning is that they help to avoid price drop due to liquidity issues. That is, algorithmic trading aside, many trades are still done by human beings who may not be paying rapt attention when a crash happens. The 15-minute pause gives them time to find out that something is up, at which point they may choose to start buying at the depressed prices, which will stabilize things. This also makes sense with the fact that the L1 and L2 breakers only trigger once each, once an L2 breaker has triggered everyone will probably be paying close attention to what's going on traders simply not being at their desks will become less of an issue.

Re: Trading halted as U.S. stocks plummet

#235
post #202

Genuine question: They can just do that ? Issue a trading halt because they don't like the direction it's going ? > “There’s a reason why they have those circuit breakers -- it’s to give people time to come back from panicked feelings,” Seems strange that the market is kinda able to be manipulated like that. I'm not saying this is a bad move, just surprised that someone can do it.

Also because of algorithmic trading. You don't want to get into an accelerated get-out-now spiral.

This sounds like something we should teach the algorithms.

Re: Trading halted as U.S. stocks plummet

#236
post #224

To be honest , the market was in dire need for correction, BUT wonder where we will be when companies starts reporting their quarterly results and impact of that. So far this looked more like a correction than a precursor to the recession. To make things worse, OPEC dropped bombs which spread the wildfire further..

Why was or is the market in need of a correction? What is your evidence for that statement?

Valuations were continuing to rise parabolically despite slowing earnings and growing debt.

Re: Trading halted as U.S. stocks plummet

#238
post #224

To be honest , the market was in dire need for correction, BUT wonder where we will be when companies starts reporting their quarterly results and impact of that. So far this looked more like a correction than a precursor to the recession. To make things worse, OPEC dropped bombs which spread the wildfire further..

Why was or is the market in need of a correction? What is your evidence for that statement?

At this point every time something positive happens in the market:

"It needs a correction"

Everytime something negative happens:

"It's just a cycle"

Maybe we don't have the best economic system where instability is built into its core & foundation?

Re: Trading halted as U.S. stocks plummet

#239
post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"They" don't do anything - this is called a circuit breaker, and is automatically triggered. There are three breakers: L1 - 7% down before 3:25pm - 15 minute halt L2 - 13% down before 3:25pm - 15 minute halt L3 - 20% down - halted for the remainder of the day Only a single L1 and a single L2 breaker can occur in a single day, e.g. the market falling below 7%, rising, then falling again will not trigger a second L1 br…

Okay thats fine, but who implements/decides these circuit breakers ? And what purpose to they serve only to limit a mass sell off ? Nice point about only 2 daily. But still seems crazy.

Mass sell offs tend to create unorderly markets, which is not beneficial for anyone.

The concept was introduced in US equities after the ‘87 crash, but was only consistently implemented for NYSE-listed stocks. In ‘13 these were made consistent and market wide (thus MWCB), set against a widely published value of the S&P (so that the control was predictable; thus how it executed today).

FYI, there are also bidirectional halts that exist intraday (Limit-Up/Limit-Down) that serve a similar purpose and control rapid, uncontrolled movements in individual stocks. These are also defined in exchange regulation and are well defined so that they are predictable.

Re: Trading halted as U.S. stocks plummet

#240

Genuine question: They can just do that ? Issue a trading halt because they don't like the direction it's going ? > “There’s a reason why they have those circuit breakers -- it’s to give people time to come back from panicked feelings,” Seems strange that the market is kinda able to be manipulated like that. I'm not saying this is a bad move, just surprised that someone can do it.

Would they also circuit break on 7% increase, in order to give people time to come back from positive feelings?

Of course not... that doesn't help the rich get richer...
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