Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The patent on SIFT expired yesterday

patents.google.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 69 posts

Re: The patent on SIFT expired yesterday

#31

Post by nullc »

littlestymaar wrote: post #28
DaiPlusPlus wrote: post #24

To what extent were the SIFT patents enforced? As an undergraduate I worked as an RA for some (IEEE published) research at my uni for some robotics work and I gather that violating the SIFT patent was somewhat common when it wasn't obvious SIFT was being used, e.g. when SIFT was being used as a fungible solution: Self-driving car demo that recognizes road-signs? No, that's too obvious. Object recognition primarily us…

Keep in mind that software patents are only enforceable in the US and Japan. Everywhere else in the world, you can do whatever you want (only copyright applies). For businesses, it's still a big deal most of the time because you usually can't really neglect the US market, but for academia, there is no such issues.

> Keep in mind that software patents are only enforceable in the US and Japan.

That is sadly untrue. There is a lot of confusion on this front because "software patents" are a specialized term of art that essentially means 'a patent that describes a procedure with no reference to a machine'. There was a period of time in the US when such patents were enforceable, but more recent cases have mostly changed that (Basically Diamond v Diehr in 1981 to CLS v Alice in 2014).

But all this is moot, because patents that apply to the software-implemented functionality of machines are common even without "software patents". I've followed more patents on software cases in _germany_ than anywhere else.

You're absolutely right about businesses. The US alone would be enough of a problem, but it isn't even the US alone that is an issue here.

Re: The patent on SIFT expired yesterday

#33

Post by unishark »

DaiPlusPlus wrote: post #24

To what extent were the SIFT patents enforced? As an undergraduate I worked as an RA for some (IEEE published) research at my uni for some robotics work and I gather that violating the SIFT patent was somewhat common when it wasn't obvious SIFT was being used, e.g. when SIFT was being used as a fungible solution: Self-driving car demo that recognizes road-signs? No, that's too obvious. Object recognition primarily us…

The way patents are enforced is the patent holder sues for damages. This obviously means there needs to be some damages, i.e. they claim they lost sales or something. If you aren't using the patent to make products or money, just to do research, this is a hard case to make. I wonder if it actually ever happens in academia.

Note that everything you "invent" that builds on the prior patent, including what you publish, is still blocked by that patent. And even if you ultimately remove the patented part, they can claim it was needed in the research process. So wantonly infringing on a patent in your research doesn't hurt the patent holder anyway.

Re: The patent on SIFT expired yesterday

#34

Post by bonoboTP »

nullc wrote: post #31
littlestymaar wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Keep in mind that software patents are only enforceable in the US and Japan. Everywhere else in the world, you can do whatever you want (only copyright applies). For businesses, it's still a big deal most of the time because you usually can't really neglect the US market, but for academia, there is no such issues.

> Keep in mind that software patents are only enforceable in the US and Japan. That is sadly untrue. There is a lot of confusion on this front because "software patents" are a specialized term of art that essentially means 'a patent that describes a procedure with no reference to a machine'. There was a period of time in the US when such patents were enforceable, but more recent cases have mostly changed that (Basica…

> a patent that describes a procedure with no reference to a machine

Essentially all software patents describe the von Neumann architecture and make sure to reference machines for this exact reason. Even when it runs on commodity PCs, the patent will still take a ridiculous amount of space to discuss how the RAM is attached to the CPU etc.

Re: The patent on SIFT expired yesterday

#36

Post by gaogao »

unishark wrote: post #33
DaiPlusPlus wrote: post #24

To what extent were the SIFT patents enforced? As an undergraduate I worked as an RA for some (IEEE published) research at my uni for some robotics work and I gather that violating the SIFT patent was somewhat common when it wasn't obvious SIFT was being used, e.g. when SIFT was being used as a fungible solution: Self-driving car demo that recognizes road-signs? No, that's too obvious. Object recognition primarily us…

The way patents are enforced is the patent holder sues for damages. This obviously means there needs to be some damages, i.e. they claim they lost sales or something. If you aren't using the patent to make products or money, just to do research, this is a hard case to make. I wonder if it actually ever happens in academia. Note that everything you "invent" that builds on the prior patent, including what you publish,…

The research exemption used to be quite broad especially for universities who would often use it as carte blanche, but was narrowed significantly by Madey v. Duke University.

Re: The patent on SIFT expired yesterday

#38

Post by pbhjpbhj »

DaiPlusPlus wrote: post #24

To what extent were the SIFT patents enforced? As an undergraduate I worked as an RA for some (IEEE published) research at my uni for some robotics work and I gather that violating the SIFT patent was somewhat common when it wasn't obvious SIFT was being used, e.g. when SIFT was being used as a fungible solution: Self-driving car demo that recognizes road-signs? No, that's too obvious. Object recognition primarily us…

In UK law you're allowed to work a patent for the purposes of research. You're also allowed to work a patent for personal use, as long as it's not commercial (distributing FOSS is a commercial activity, fwiw, as it could compete with for sale products).

Not allowing research use would be entirely antithetical to the patent system itself.

[This post is my opinion, not legal advice, and is provided for entertainment purposes only.]

Re: The patent on SIFT expired yesterday

#39

Post by rumanator »

DaiPlusPlus wrote: post #24

To what extent were the SIFT patents enforced? As an undergraduate I worked as an RA for some (IEEE published) research at my uni for some robotics work and I gather that violating the SIFT patent was somewhat common when it wasn't obvious SIFT was being used, e.g. when SIFT was being used as a fungible solution: Self-driving car demo that recognizes road-signs? No, that's too obvious. Object recognition primarily us…

> To what extent were the SIFT patents enforced?

I don't know if the patent was ever enforce, but I know for a fact that some companies intentionally adopted SURF and variants derived from SURF due to the patent threat.

Re: The patent on SIFT expired yesterday

#40

Post by rsp1984 »

skunkworker wrote: post #4

Does this mean that OpenCV will be able to now include SIFT in the “free” modules. Or are there more roadblocks before including it?

I'm not a lawyer, but as far as I know expired US patents enter the public domain. After their expiration the described invention can be freely used by anyone for any purpose [1].

So I think the answers to your questions are yes and no.

[1] https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/how-long-is-my-paten...

Post reply on HN