Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Pollution from tire wear is worse than exhaust emissions?

emissionsanalytics.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

201–210 of 336 posts

Re: Pollution from tire wear is worse than exhaust emissions?

#201

Post by npunt »

ratel wrote: post #164

Hold on: The claim is this: > "Using a popular family hatchback running on brand new, correctly inflated tyres, we found that the car emitted 5.8 grams per kilometer of particles." It does not seem to be a mistake: > "Compared with regulated exhaust emission limits of 4.5 milligrams per kilometer, the completely unregulated tyre wear emission is higher by a factor of over 1,000." A tire might way up to 15 kilograms f…

Excellent use of back of the envelope math. I wonder if maybe the loss is non-linear, and a bit more is coming off because the tires are brand new. Perhaps there’s some coating on new tires before they ‘break in’?

Re: Pollution from tire wear is worse than exhaust emissions?

#202

Post by labawi »

toss1 wrote: post #165
sjg007 wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It will be dose dependent.

Exactly. Question is, what is the dosing level that would cause harm, and what are the routes that this material takes that might rise to such a level, vs how much is, e.g., stuck on the pavement and washed into the ditch with every rain?

> stuck on the pavement and washed into the ditch with every rain?

This is also an important problem - there is a lot of synthetic rubber particulate in waterways and oceans - a notable fraction of all microplastics.

Re: Pollution from tire wear is worse than exhaust emissions?

#203

Post by jessaustin »

masklinn wrote: post #179
a3n wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Take a 40t truck with 5 axles vs. a small car with a weight of 1t and two axles ... Truck driver. Not quibbling, just adding nuance. For your typical 40t scenario, allowed max weights are: 12,00 pounds on the front steering axle. It has one tire at each end. 34,000 pounds total on the two tandem "drive" axles on the truck. There are two tires at the end of each axle, so four per axle, eight total at the drive axles…

> Truck driver. Not quibbling, just adding nuance. You're absolutely quibbling though. > So you should include in your calculations that the load is spread out over eighteen tires, as above. The fourth power rule is specifically about axle load, not about wheel load. It's also an estimate / rule of thumb (which is why it's so useful), not a precision instrument. But hey if you want more precision than the FPR we can…

Yeah, they use dual tires so that they don't pop catastrophically, not to spare the road from wear.

Re: Pollution from tire wear is worse than exhaust emissions?

#204

Post by mycall »

jessaustin wrote: post #199
ratel wrote: post #164

Hold on: The claim is this: > "Using a popular family hatchback running on brand new, correctly inflated tyres, we found that the car emitted 5.8 grams per kilometer of particles." It does not seem to be a mistake: > "Compared with regulated exhaust emission limits of 4.5 milligrams per kilometer, the completely unregulated tyre wear emission is higher by a factor of over 1,000." A tire might way up to 15 kilograms f…

Not sure if this test was set up to measure this, but brake dust, which contains all sorts of noxious particles, is a huge component of automobile emissions. This probably doesn't answer your question, however, because brake pads themselves only weigh so much...

I thought brake pads use asbestos which contribute to the noxious particles.

I do think Vehicle-to-vehicle communications will eventually minimize the all the chicken necking, evening out the traffic and thus less breaking.

Re: Pollution from tire wear is worse than exhaust emissions?

#205

Post by blattimwind »

selectodude wrote: post #142
Spooky23 wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shitty tires start with the same tread depth, but wear out in 25-35k miles. High quality tires usually go 50-60k.

The $400/corner tires on a sports car usually last about 5-8000 miles. They’re about as high quality as it gets.

Tyres are designed on a performance - life continuum. High performance means softer rubber, with better grip, but thus lower life. Long life means harder rubber, with less grip, thusly reduced performance.

Re: Pollution from tire wear is worse than exhaust emissions?

#206

Post by hirundo »

_Microft wrote: post #32

Maybe offtopic but a surprising bit of extra information regarding wear and vehicles: Road wear scales with the fourth power of axle load, so heavier vehicles do much more damage than one might expect. Take a 40t truck with 5 axles vs. a small car with a weight of 1t and two axles (e.g. VW Polo, maybe an older VW Golf might only weigh 1t as well): (8t axle load / 0.5t axle load) = 16^4, i.e. the truck puts 2^16 (6553…

Like hiking trails. It takes a large number of people on boots to do the damage of one person on a horse on horseshoes.

Re: Pollution from tire wear is worse than exhaust emissions?

#207

Post by blattimwind »

mrich wrote: post #192

The German Post designed the Streetscooter a while back which is an electric delivery van. They also claim "zero fine dust driving". But how does that work? It is quite hard to have a fully closed system so no particles can escape. Well, their solution is quite clever: They are filtering the air in general, so can also consume particles emitted from other cars, even when the vehicle is not moving. So they could even…

Streetscooter is in the process of being shut down.

Re: Pollution from tire wear is worse than exhaust emissions?

#208

Post by njarboe »

mycall wrote: post #204
jessaustin wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure if this test was set up to measure this, but brake dust, which contains all sorts of noxious particles, is a huge component of automobile emissions. This probably doesn't answer your question, however, because brake pads themselves only weigh so much...

I thought brake pads use asbestos which contribute to the noxious particles. I do think Vehicle-to-vehicle communications will eventually minimize the all the chicken necking, evening out the traffic and thus less breaking.

Electric vehicles have regenerative braking when not braking hard. This dramatically reduces brake wear.

Re: Pollution from tire wear is worse than exhaust emissions?

#209

Post by progman32 »

amelius wrote: post #70
_Microft wrote: post #32

Maybe offtopic but a surprising bit of extra information regarding wear and vehicles: Road wear scales with the fourth power of axle load, so heavier vehicles do much more damage than one might expect. Take a 40t truck with 5 axles vs. a small car with a weight of 1t and two axles (e.g. VW Polo, maybe an older VW Golf might only weigh 1t as well): (8t axle load / 0.5t axle load) = 16^4, i.e. the truck puts 2^16 (6553…

> Road wear scales with the fourth power of axle load, so heavier vehicles do much more damage than one might expect. Yes. Electric vehicles with their heavy batteries also make things worse.

Side point: EVs do most of their breaking via regeneration, so much less brake dust emission.

Re: Pollution from tire wear is worse than exhaust emissions?

#210

Post by pedrosorio »

Marsymars wrote: post #191
allovernow wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it doesn't matter if you're a 2-lane, 4-lane, or 8-lane road If you halve the capacity of the road, you're just going to spread the same cars (and congestion) among twice as many lights...and make traffic far worse.

Depends. My commute home from my office has a 6km of a three-lane road and then a single traffic light. The road never gets backed up more than a couple km from the traffic light, so even dropping it to a single lane wouldn't make any real difference to the throughput. The speed you drive on the three-lane road also makes no real difference to the throughput as long as you get the same amount of cars through the traf…

> as long as you get the same amount of cars through the traffic light at each cycle.

Isn’t this proportional to the number of lanes in the road?

Post reply on HN