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Airlines flying empty planes to keep flight slots during coronavirus outbreak

businessinsider.com

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Re: Airlines flying empty planes to keep flight slots during coronavirus outbreak

#311

Post by tomatocracy »

noinsight wrote: post #55
noinsight wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because on the flip side, airlines could keep canceling flights on less popular routes when they're not at full capacity (i.e. not/less profitable). That would inconvenience passengers. Under this regulation they could lose that route to a competitor that is more willing to service customers (or can operate at a lower cost). EDIT: I found the EU page outlining the regulation here: https://ec.europa.eu/transport/modes…

Another reason springs to mind: if airports are congested - as they probably are - if an airline continually wastes allocated take-off/landing slots by not actually using them, the whole airport becomes less efficient and those precious slots could have been better used by someone else. This disincentivizes doing that. I'll leave why someone would hog slots they have no intention of using as an open question.

I don't think airlines do hold on to slots that they have no intention of ever using in practice - they tend to sell the slots in those circumstances.

What they do do though is hold onto slots at congested airports that they perhaps don't have a use for until a few weeks/months down the line.

Re: Airlines flying empty planes to keep flight slots during coronavirus outbreak

#312

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

fma wrote: post #166
partiallypro wrote: post #152

The oddity I've personally had, is I had been planning a summer trip to Germany for the Euro 2020 tournament (assuming they don't get cancelled.) However, I hadn't bought plane tickets yet. Due to the virus, I figured I might get cheaper rates. The opposite has been true. The round trip went from ~$1200 up to ~$1800 in just a month or two. I'm still tracking flights, but so far I haven't seen a good dip in pricing. I…

Coworker of mine is in a similar situation. He said tickets were 2x before. I joked he's making up for the other person who cancelled.

I don't think that's a joke - I think that's exactly what's happening.

It's only going to work for customers who have to fly - which is a fairly small number. So instead of making up a shortfall, it's more likely to be a money-losing strategy.

I checked our local carrier and prices are down a lot. I was considering a flight at the end of April and prices are between a half and a third of what they were when I checked them in January.

Re: Airlines flying empty planes to keep flight slots during coronavirus outbreak

#313

Post by TeMPOraL »

tuesday20 wrote: post #298
sfj wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hence, the problem with empty planes being flown around.

Ok, can’t they make another rule against flying empty planes? This seems fair, right?

Then they'll just start paying a bunch of people for being passengers and flying back-and-forth.

Re: Airlines flying empty planes to keep flight slots during coronavirus outbreak

#314

Post by TeMPOraL »

reaperducer wrote: post #184
tuesday20 wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t understand this. Can’t we put rules in place to prevent this? How hard can it be to take the slots back from the big airlines if they are not using them?

How hard can it be to take the slots back from the big airlines if they are not using them? The airlines bought them. They're property. Just like the car dealer can't take your car back if you're not using it.

Did they buy them, or did they lease them?

Re: Airlines flying empty planes to keep flight slots during coronavirus outbreak

#316

Post by svartkanin »

natmaka wrote: post #257

AFAIK this is common practice in many armies, where each group obtains a predetermined amount ('dotation') of goods (gas, ammo, clothes...) for a given period (often a year), uses whatever it needs, then an accounting process takes into account whatever wasn't used in order to calculate the next dotation. It seems consistent and efficient. However it neglects human nature. The soldiers want to avoid missing anything,…

I workes for a big telecommunication company in Australia and they did tge same thing with theur yearly budget.

At tge end of the financial year they would hire consultants for "ghost" projects that were supposedly starting in the future eventually.

This meant that they could book the costs for the current financial year and reduced the chance of getting their budget cut due to unused money

Re: Airlines flying empty planes to keep flight slots during coronavirus outbreak

#317

Post by emiliobumachar »

o-__-o wrote: post #288
zbentley wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They used the wrong metric, but an easy one to measure. The right metrics (are the factories producing things correctly? Are those making it to consumers? Are the consumers paying for them?) are too difficult to measure discretely. And so we end up here. Reminds me of "the 'return 200' health-check endpoint is working; how can the site be down?"

And THIS is why crypto markets are dropping, because China is flooding the network with miners to meet energy quotas

IMO mining costs are dominated by chips, nobody has idle data centers on standby for such an occasion.

Re: Airlines flying empty planes to keep flight slots during coronavirus outbreak

#318

Post by anticensor »

Ankaios wrote: post #195
qubex wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think you understand the problems associated with the “just sell the slots” idea. The problem is that big airlines could buy up slots and then not use them. They wouldn’t necessarily have an incentive to sell them, either, because the buyers could be small, regional, or low-cost companies that could leverage them to build up a small but profitable business and later take on the bigger airlines (as happened wi…

To deal with no-show airlines, I'd be (darkly) amused if airports sold somewhat more slots than their gates could physically accommodate.

How would you time the excess time slots?

Re: Airlines flying empty planes to keep flight slots during coronavirus outbreak

#319

Post by crucialfelix »

partiallypro wrote: post #152

The oddity I've personally had, is I had been planning a summer trip to Germany for the Euro 2020 tournament (assuming they don't get cancelled.) However, I hadn't bought plane tickets yet. Due to the virus, I figured I might get cheaper rates. The opposite has been true. The round trip went from ~$1200 up to ~$1800 in just a month or two. I'm still tracking flights, but so far I haven't seen a good dip in pricing. I…

Prices cycle up and down when you are that far in advance. Lately airlines are changing rates multiple times per day and using ML to maximize their profit. It's much harder to predict when to buy. Many articles about ideal days and months to purchase are becoming obsolete.

Re: Airlines flying empty planes to keep flight slots during coronavirus outbreak

#320

Post by alfiedotwtf »

svartkanin wrote: post #316
natmaka wrote: post #257

AFAIK this is common practice in many armies, where each group obtains a predetermined amount ('dotation') of goods (gas, ammo, clothes...) for a given period (often a year), uses whatever it needs, then an accounting process takes into account whatever wasn't used in order to calculate the next dotation. It seems consistent and efficient. However it neglects human nature. The soldiers want to avoid missing anything,…

I workes for a big telecommunication company in Australia and they did tge same thing with theur yearly budget. At tge end of the financial year they would hire consultants for "ghost" projects that were supposedly starting in the future eventually. This meant that they could book the costs for the current financial year and reduced the chance of getting their budget cut due to unused money

Australian University checking in. Use your budget, or get next year’s budget cut
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