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Airlines flying empty planes to keep flight slots during coronavirus outbreak

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Re: Airlines flying empty planes to keep flight slots during coronavirus outbreak

#261
post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't forget that a company internally is run like a Soviet Style planned economy. 5 year plans, no way for people on the ground to adjust plans, inflexible leadership. I could also mention things like total disconnect between communication from leadership and reality or motivational posters. It's all there. It's not surprising they create similar behaviors.

And yet, all of these companies that run like command economies have collectively out-competed all the companies that run like market economies. We know this, because the latter... Don't really exist. No company of any note operates like one. Does that imply that command economies are actually more efficient than market ones?

I've thought about this for different reasons lately and concluded that companies that operate internally as a market would be vulnerable to second system syndrome, ie just becoming a poor imitation of the actual market. You could argue that some (rare) companies that act like markets are those with a safe income stream that insulate them from financial pressures enough to create a market of a second sort. The only sort I can think of is any sort of market of ideas where employees are reasonably free to invest their time as they see fit. Something like Google's 20% time (at least in the old days when that was apparently still a thing) or Valve, where they say the reason desks are on wheels is so you can move to join the team you think is doing the most important work. Whether that's how it works out is another matter...

Re: Airlines flying empty planes to keep flight slots during coronavirus outbreak

#262
post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You literally can't start an airline from scratch. Gonna need a citation on this one. I would guess the actual reason airlines are hard to start from scratch is the massive capital required, but would be interested in having this guess proven incorrect. Porter Airlines in Canada (which presumably has a very similar regulatory regime) was started from scratch about 20 years ago.

Very small airline. They have 29 planes that can hold 74 people. American airlines (including regional partnerships has 1700).

Few notes there:

* The parent comment didn't caveat "large airline".

* Porter is the third-largest airline in Canada. Canada has 10% of the population of the US, so our airlines will be accordingly smaller.

* American Airlines is the largest airline in North America [1], serves the entire country + international. Really not a reasonable comparison to a regional domestic airline.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_airlines_in_No...

Re: Airlines flying empty planes to keep flight slots during coronavirus outbreak

#264

I've been on three flights (domestic US) in the past week. Pretty much normal load factor as far as I could tell.

United States has only 3 Class 3 Airports (same number as Poland), only one of them on official IATA list. Unless you fly to/from/through NYC or D.C., your domestic flight doesn't touch any slot, and thus avoids the reason for flying empty.

Re: Airlines flying empty planes to keep flight slots during coronavirus outbreak

#266

AFAIK this is common practice in many armies, where each group obtains a predetermined amount ('dotation') of goods (gas, ammo, clothes...) for a given period (often a year), uses whatever it needs, then an accounting process takes into account whatever wasn't used in order to calculate the next dotation. It seems consistent and efficient. However it neglects human nature. The soldiers want to avoid missing anything,…

It's also a common practice in any department that has their budget determined this way, e.g. https://vimeo.com/27060669

Re: Airlines flying empty planes to keep flight slots during coronavirus outbreak

#267

AFAIK this is common practice in many armies, where each group obtains a predetermined amount ('dotation') of goods (gas, ammo, clothes...) for a given period (often a year), uses whatever it needs, then an accounting process takes into account whatever wasn't used in order to calculate the next dotation. It seems consistent and efficient. However it neglects human nature. The soldiers want to avoid missing anything,…

It's also a common practice in any department that has their budget determined this way, e.g. https://vimeo.com/27060669

I'm not sure if I have ever heard of any budgeting that didn't have exactly that problem. Perhaps budgeting on specific problems? That still might require separating budget for headcount....

Re: Airlines flying empty planes to keep flight slots during coronavirus outbreak

#268

AFAIK this is common practice in many armies, where each group obtains a predetermined amount ('dotation') of goods (gas, ammo, clothes...) for a given period (often a year), uses whatever it needs, then an accounting process takes into account whatever wasn't used in order to calculate the next dotation. It seems consistent and efficient. However it neglects human nature. The soldiers want to avoid missing anything,…

Another one I dislike government programs that are “cut” when really they just have a reduced rate of increase, rather than a lower gross amount.

Re: Airlines flying empty planes to keep flight slots during coronavirus outbreak

#269
post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t understand this. Can’t we put rules in place to prevent this? How hard can it be to take the slots back from the big airlines if they are not using them?

Hence, the problem with empty planes being flown around.

[deleted]

Re: Airlines flying empty planes to keep flight slots during coronavirus outbreak

#270

AFAIK this is common practice in many armies, where each group obtains a predetermined amount ('dotation') of goods (gas, ammo, clothes...) for a given period (often a year), uses whatever it needs, then an accounting process takes into account whatever wasn't used in order to calculate the next dotation. It seems consistent and efficient. However it neglects human nature. The soldiers want to avoid missing anything,…

The US and West were once bureaucratic but somewhat efficient societies - able to pivot beyond the average. But indeed, it appears things have degenerated to "what armies have done through the ages".
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