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The human genome is full of viruses

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Re: The human genome is full of viruses

#31

Post by c22 »

mjg59 wrote: post #12
UncleOxidant wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But in this case the program also creates the computer it runs on.

You can't bootstrap a cell from DNA - you need a functioning cell to start with. There's a lot of semantic data that's embodied in the existing set of proteins and other functional elements, and I don't think it's clear that the DNA of any moderately complex organism actually expresses that state.

You can't bootstrap a self-hosting compiler from a language you just made up either. You'll need to first write a compiler in another language then use it to compile the compiler you wrote in your new language. I think the compiler/program dichotomy is a more apt metaphor for cells and dna than the computer/program one.

Re: The human genome is full of viruses

#32

Post by hirundo »

“So powerful and ancient are viruses, that I would summarize their role in life as ‘Ex Virus Omnia’ (from virus everything).”

We have met the enemy and he is us. Viruses may be both the gravest threat to our species and mothers and fathers of it. They are also, to a first approximation, the Red Queen, who must be obeyed. If we can disobey her, and distribute an effective vaccine in time to dent her latest royal tour, it will be an epic level up: the power to not consent to impregnation by horizontal gene transfer.

It seems that we're not quite there yet.

Re: The human genome is full of viruses

#33

Post by [deleted] »

mjg59 wrote: post #12
UncleOxidant wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But in this case the program also creates the computer it runs on.

You can't bootstrap a cell from DNA - you need a functioning cell to start with. There's a lot of semantic data that's embodied in the existing set of proteins and other functional elements, and I don't think it's clear that the DNA of any moderately complex organism actually expresses that state.

[deleted]

Re: The human genome is full of viruses

#36

Post by thaumasiotes »

pergadad wrote: post #25
_bxg1 wrote: post #3

I've always thought of DNA as mere "data". "This goes here, that goes there", etc. And I've always wondered how such a relatively small amount of data could describe the massive complexity of a full-size organism. But this makes it sound like DNA is data the way Lisp is data: it can contain procedures and transformations and meta-statements about itself, and even mutate during the course of being interpreted. That wo…

Just in case this is not known, human generic code is more than just DNA. Most important parts of what encodes us are: - DNA - epigenetic markers on the DNA which modulate which parts of the DNA are active. You influence these and pass them on to your children (as men) and grandchildren (as women, as girls are born with all egg cells they'll ever have) - cell organelles which copy the DNA, ensure the cell has food an…

> independent cells that were at some point captured by our own cells

It makes a little more sense to think of them as "domesticated" rather than "captured".

Re: The human genome is full of viruses

#39

Post by [deleted] »

dehrmann wrote: post #14
_bxg1 wrote: post #3

I've always thought of DNA as mere "data". "This goes here, that goes there", etc. And I've always wondered how such a relatively small amount of data could describe the massive complexity of a full-size organism. But this makes it sound like DNA is data the way Lisp is data: it can contain procedures and transformations and meta-statements about itself, and even mutate during the course of being interpreted. That wo…

> I've always wondered how such a relatively small amount of data could describe the massive complexity of a full-size organism I'm not convinced it fully does. Remember that DNA is never in isolation; there's always a cell that's been replicated and passed down to offspring, so there's interplay between the hardware cell and software DNA. I also don't know much about biology and only took a high school class, so don…

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