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30-year U.S. bond yields less than S&P dividend rate

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Re: 30-year U.S. bond yields less than S&P dividend rate

#21

Idk if this belongs at HN but if it does, then isn't this the greatest opportunity post 2008 crash to invest in to the markets?

It's best to avoid timing the market. It could do up x% on Monday or down y%. The people driving the real volume know way more than you or I.

Re: 30-year U.S. bond yields less than S&P dividend rate

#22
post #16

Idk if this belongs at HN but if it does, then isn't this the greatest opportunity post 2008 crash to invest in to the markets?

I'm in an interesting position related to this. In Canada, most people lock into their mortgage rate for 3-5 years. After that, you've got to renegotiate a rate but you're also free to switch banks. It's like starting over again at whatever you currently owe. I locked into mine 4 and a half years ago, so renewal is coming up this summer. Meanwhile, my home's value has skyrocketed (thanks to an insane Toronto housing…

You are essentially playing a poker game and buying in with the deed to your home. Sure, what’s the worst thing that could happen.

Re: 30-year U.S. bond yields less than S&P dividend rate

#23
It's worth noting that most people nowadays don't buy bonds directly, you would normally hold them through an ETF/index fund like BND or TLT. Yields typically drop when there's a flight to quality (i.e., people selling stocks to buy bonds). The upward pressure on bond prices drives yields down because people are willing to pay more for lower yields. Bonds are almost like a future of expected return on capital. If bond prices are high and yields are low, it suggests the market thinks equities will have a lower return.

Bonds and stocks have been fairly non-correlated over recent years, but this hasn't always been so. It's great for modern portfolio theory (i.e., holding a portion of stocks and bonds and rebalancing periodically). There's no guarantee that it will stay this way.

Anyway, I'm not giving investment advice, but I think the current market panic is short term and non-systemic, so it's not a terrible idea to consider rebalancing from bonds into stocks while the prices are good. If you think the market might keep dropping, then perhaps wait a little longer.

The truth is that trying to time the market is like throwing a dart at a board blindfolded, so you might as well take advantage of the current state instead of speculating about the future.

Re: 30-year U.S. bond yields less than S&P dividend rate

#24
I'm about to start investing with lump sum next week since stocks looks cheaper. I was thinking to go with 80% SWDA (global stocks [1]) and 20% AGGU (global bonds[2]). I'm a non US resident.

- Should I consider to take less bonds?

- Is lump sum a good idea, or should I DCA?

[1] https://www.ishares.com/uk/individual/en/products/251882/ish...

[2] https://www.ishares.com/uk/individual/en/products/291772/ish...

Re: 30-year U.S. bond yields less than S&P dividend rate

#25
post #16

Idk if this belongs at HN but if it does, then isn't this the greatest opportunity post 2008 crash to invest in to the markets?

I'm in an interesting position related to this. In Canada, most people lock into their mortgage rate for 3-5 years. After that, you've got to renegotiate a rate but you're also free to switch banks. It's like starting over again at whatever you currently owe. I locked into mine 4 and a half years ago, so renewal is coming up this summer. Meanwhile, my home's value has skyrocketed (thanks to an insane Toronto housing…

Just pay off your mortgage and focus on things that you do understand well.

It would not be prudent to invest the majority of your wealth into a recently broken bull market trend and try to catch the falling knife so to speak.

The markets could recover in 10 years, or they could bleed out for another 10 years.

If you actually had any inkling of which way the markets would move... you'd be retired already.

Re: 30-year U.S. bond yields less than S&P dividend rate

#26

I'm about to start investing with lump sum next week since stocks looks cheaper. I was thinking to go with 80% SWDA (global stocks [1]) and 20% AGGU (global bonds[2]). I'm a non US resident. - Should I consider to take less bonds? - Is lump sum a good idea, or should I DCA? [1] https://www.ishares.com/uk/individual/en/products/251882/ish... [2] https://www.ishares.com/uk/individual/en/products/291772/ish...

For questions like this, check out the Bogleheads wiki: https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Main_Page

There's a lot of research on lump sum vs. DCA, which is summarized here: https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Dollar_cost_averaging

Re: 30-year U.S. bond yields less than S&P dividend rate

#27
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The recent drop is not very significant (a little over 10%). The Great Financial Crisis caused a 60% drop around 2008/2009. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/27/business/what-is-a-stock-...

The recent drop happened in only one week, it was really abrupt and breaking records. GFC didn't happen over 1 week, the bear market from GFC was from October 9/10, 2007 to March 9, 2009.

I don't think it broke any real records, the only one is the absolute point drop in the indexes, but that's a meaningless stat that will constantly be broken in the future as the economy grows - proportion is what's interesting.

Re: 30-year U.S. bond yields less than S&P dividend rate

#28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yields have been declining since the 80s [0]. It could be the greatest opportunity, but a trade like that might take a lifetime to pan out. [0]: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/IRLTLT01USM156N

Try 700 years. https://www.visualcapitalist.com/700-year-decline-of-interes... Betting against rate decreases in the long term is likely a terrible financial decision.

I love this comment and link! All asset class yields will eventually arrive at zero, it's just when.

Re: 30-year U.S. bond yields less than S&P dividend rate

#29
post #20
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in an interesting position related to this. In Canada, most people lock into their mortgage rate for 3-5 years. After that, you've got to renegotiate a rate but you're also free to switch banks. It's like starting over again at whatever you currently owe. I locked into mine 4 and a half years ago, so renewal is coming up this summer. Meanwhile, my home's value has skyrocketed (thanks to an insane Toronto housing…

I know someone who did this. It didn't work out and it's their single biggest financial regret in life.

I've seen 6 people in the last 2 weeks on wallstreetbets gamble away their student loans.

The sad part is one guy will post their success of doubling their student loan, and it will just cause a bunch of younger inexperienced 19 year olds to lose tens of thousands to their own gambles.

It's really sad. It's an addiction

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