Study: Low Carb Diet May Prevent, Reverse Age-Related Effects Within the Brain • Hacker News Board

Re: Study: Low Carb Diet May Prevent, Reverse Age-Related Effects Within the Brain

#241

Post by uberduper » Fri, Mar 06, 2020, 7:37 PM UTC

throwaway_tech wrote: post #239

teilo wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you over consume fat or carbs, they get stored as fat in fat cells. What happens when you over consume protein? Protein can not be stored as fat, it must first be converted to glucose, which the body will try to burn before it is stored in fat cells. No, this is wrong. GNG is capped in the body, i.e., strictly regulated. It does not increase based upon protein intake beyond that cap. Excess protein is neither co…

>excess protein is not converted to fat via GNG, but is used for protein synthesis, and increases lean body mass. >In conclusion, after a high-protein diet, GNG was increased... https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/british-journal-of-n...

Just reading the abstract makes it pretty obvious.

> "A total of twenty-two healthy subjects (ten men and twelve women: age 23 (sem 1) years, BMI 22·1 (sem 0·5) kg/m2) received an isoenergetic high-protein (30/0/70 % of energy from protein/carbohydrate/fat) or normal-protein diet (12/55/33 % of energy from protein/carbohydrate/fat) for 1·5 d in a randomised cross-over design"

It wasn't the increase in protein that stimulated GNG. It was the reduction of carbs. Without sufficient dietary carbohydrate, the body must maintain minimum glucose levels via GNG.

Re: Study: Low Carb Diet May Prevent, Reverse Age-Related Effects Within the Brain

#242

Post by throwaway_tech » Fri, Mar 06, 2020, 7:44 PM UTC

bad_user wrote: post #237

com2kid wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is plenty of work showing that physical endurance increases after extended periods on keto. Athletes have carefully tracked their performance numbers day by day and demonstrated real changes. And as someone who participates in activities that require large amounts of endurance, I know on keto my ability to perform for extended periods of time is higher. These aren't "I think" numbers, they are "polar heart rate…

> There is plenty of work showing that physical endurance increases after extended periods on keto Not really. Yes, athletes do suffer an adaptation, but it's basically about returning to near baseline levels (i.e. from sucking badly to sucking less). And as a matter of fact, the peak performance never recovers to full capacity ;-) Here's a list of studies on this subject — all of them showing a dicrease in performan…

>Yes, athletes do suffer an adaptation

You admit and acknowledge an "adaptation" in this comment, but in another reply to me where I talk out the keto adaptation, you replied:

>everything you're saying is a complete myth. Define what it means for the cells to adapt for "running on ketones". There's no such thing.

As previously provided:

A ketogenic diet (KD) involves using fat, a high-density substrate, as the main source in daily calorie intake while restricting carbohydrate intake [21,22]. In this way, the liver is forced to produce and release ketone bodies into the circulation [23,24,25,26]. This phenomenon is called nutritional ketosis [27,28,29]. Over time, the body will acclimate to using ketone bodies as a primary fuel, which is called keto-adaptation, an element of fat-adaptation [30,31,32]. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6410243/

>Several days of dietary carbohydrate restriction to levels https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S24682....

>Here's a list of studies on this subject — all of them showing a dicrease in performance:

I think most agree for high level athletes in anaerobic sports ketosis isn't going to be the best diet for athletic performance, but these studies don't really support what you claim

- https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2279002/

>In conclusion, in this study we have demonstrated that VLDL-TG made a significant contribution to fuel utilization during exercise after adaptation to a fat-rich diet. The increased total fat oxidation observed after fat diet adaptation originated from both a higher plasma FA oxidation and utilization of VLDL-TG, and thus circulating VLDL-TG should be included among the lipid fuels that may be utilized during exercise.

- https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14967870

>Adaptation to a 6-week HFMP diet in non-highly trained men resulted in increased fat oxidation during exercise and small decrements in peak power output and endurance performance.

- https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4113752/

This is the most supportive of your position, but it still acknowledges the benefits of ketosis

>It can be concluded that long-term, high fat diets may be favorable for aerobic endurance athletes, during the preparatory season, when a high volume and low to moderate intensity of training loads predominate in the training process. High volume training on a ketogenic diet increases fat metabolism during exercise, reduces body mass and fat content and decreases post exercise muscle damage.

Re: Study: Low Carb Diet May Prevent, Reverse Age-Related Effects Within the Brain

#243

Post by uptownfunk » Fri, Mar 06, 2020, 7:54 PM UTC

fokinsean wrote: post #213

uptownfunk wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mostly plant based (occasional pizza or gelato maybe once a month), I do alternate day fasting, something like 40:8, fast 40 hours eat for 8.. try to avoid night eating, it makes me feel worse the next day.. maybe a bit much for some but I feel so much stronger as a result. Low caffeine.. probably too much fake meat/soy products for my own good..

Oh wow that's an intense fasting schedule (at least to me)! I've been trying to be consistent about 16:8 during the week. Weekends usually mess me up due to alcohol... I've noticed feeling more tired this year and am exploring ways to fight it. Maybe I need to kick down the caffeine as well.

Since I’ve started fasting it’s hard for me to sleep past 4-5am, which is nice because at least in my culture, it’s supposed to be a good time to get up and meditate and think.. it’s not so intense but I don’t do intense physical activity, maybe 30 minutes of ashtanga yoga a day..

Re: Study: Low Carb Diet May Prevent, Reverse Age-Related Effects Within the Brain

#244

Post by zadokshi » Fri, Mar 06, 2020, 7:58 PM UTC

crazygringo wrote: post #229

bad_user wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you have never entered ketosis and experienced your brain running on ketones, I would suggest you experiment for yourself. I would say a minimum 2-3 months which should be enough time for your microbiome to change and your body/brain to adapt primarily running on ketones. I've been on Keto for about 8 months (before giving up), measuring my blood ketones and being in deep ketosis between meals (over 2 mmol/L). I…

Your last paragraph is just unbelievably flat-out wrong. Maybe you didn't suffer from keto flu, but it can last for a couple weeks to a couple months (my case) and has zero to do with dehydration. You're literally retraining your body to efficiently burn stored body fat when it never had to much before. This takes time. The idea that it happens in days is laughable, as is the idea that your microbiome adjusts that qu…

Saying something is ‘laughable’ is not an argument.

Re: Study: Low Carb Diet May Prevent, Reverse Age-Related Effects Within the Brain

#245

Post by teilo » Fri, Mar 06, 2020, 8:05 PM UTC

throwaway_tech wrote: post #239

teilo wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you over consume fat or carbs, they get stored as fat in fat cells. What happens when you over consume protein? Protein can not be stored as fat, it must first be converted to glucose, which the body will try to burn before it is stored in fat cells. No, this is wrong. GNG is capped in the body, i.e., strictly regulated. It does not increase based upon protein intake beyond that cap. Excess protein is neither co…

>excess protein is not converted to fat via GNG, but is used for protein synthesis, and increases lean body mass. >In conclusion, after a high-protein diet, GNG was increased... https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/british-journal-of-n...

GNG increases when in ketosis, but is still capped because ketones regulate the GNG process. That is the effect which was observed here. It says it right there in the synopsis:

"Glucose concentration was lower (4·09 (sem 0·10) v. 4·89 (sem 0·06) mmol/l, P β-hydroxybutyrate is a ketone body.

Note that this contradicts your statements that GNG will kick you out of ketosis. It absolutely will not.

To repeat: GNG is constant, regulated by ketones, and its relative level is not driven by protein demand, but by glucose depletion.

Re: Study: Low Carb Diet May Prevent, Reverse Age-Related Effects Within the Brain

#246

Post by yazaddaruvala » Fri, Mar 06, 2020, 8:16 PM UTC

wtetzner wrote: post #172

hanniabu wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Olive oil. Lots of olive oil.

Yep. But you're probably better off cooking with something like coconut oil, and just pouring the olive oil on your food.

Thanks for stating this, not enough people understand the smoke point of the oil they cook with.

If I'm heating oil, its always avocado oil or clarified butter.

If I'm pouring or drinking oil, its always high-quality extra-virgin olive oil.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Smoke_point_of_cookin...

Re: Study: Low Carb Diet May Prevent, Reverse Age-Related Effects Within the Brain

#247

Post by ypcx » Fri, Mar 06, 2020, 8:19 PM UTC

dhimes wrote: post #90

ypcx wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my personal case I'm not really able to enter and maintain good ketosis levels without also fasting intermittently. Intermittent fasting is key to enabling me to lower my caloric input because of the momentum of the fasting phase carried over into the eating phase, e.g. smaller stomach and more effective metabolism. I currently fast about 12 hours per day (including the sleep phase), which doesn't sound like much…

As an N of one, I present my situation: Since mid-January this year I have been fasting intemittently. I have zero calories before 5PM, and I am usually in bed by 10. I exercise most weeks between 4 and six days, but only two or so are "vigorous" for me. My workouts are mid-day. When I eat, I eat normally for me, which is lower carb and higher protein, but not (knowingly) keto or anything. I have lost about 10 pounds…

>Since mid-January this year

That's a sample too short, a lot of that can be the momentum carried over from whatever you have been doing previously. You have to understand that as a carb/sugar eater, you may have effectively destroyed your body to the point when it's much harder for it to digest nutrients from food (e.g. fatty liver). And/or you may have a starting diabetes.

Before jumping into the meds death spiral, check Dr. Berg's videos on YouTube, and I'm sure you'll find a way forward. When your body is broken, nutrition isn't a simple thing, trust me, I know.

Re: Study: Low Carb Diet May Prevent, Reverse Age-Related Effects Within the Brain

#248

Post by adrianmonk » Fri, Mar 06, 2020, 8:19 PM UTC

rjyoungling wrote: post #56

ropiwqefjnpoa wrote: post #8

Sugar, not fat is the killer. Incredible how for decades bad research and the likes of Ancel Keys and Phil Sokolof put the health of millions at risk.

I think this is mistaking correlation for causation. The problem with sugar is that it's often found in highly palatable foods that contain large quantities of fat and calories. If one monitors their caloric intake/outtake such that one is in a deficit or at maintenance not only do negative markers disappear, they improve. (Even on a high sugar diet.) That's not to say: 'only eat lion candy bars and all is fine.' (On…

I actually think it might be all of at least three things:

1. Too much sugar has direct effects on the body, even for people at a totally healthy weight. Possibly including changing your appetite.

2. What you said: unhealthy foods very often contain sugar; therefore, foods high in sugar are more likely to be unhealthy in other ways too.

3. Sugar has calories but doesn't make you feel full. Too much sugar works against controlling your weight because people want a minimum amount of satiation.

The first point may seem wrong if you tend to think of the body as simply using sugar as fuel so that it only "pays attention" to the energy content. One thing that convinced me it's probably more complicated than that is a study (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5513783/) showing that if endurance athletes merely swish a sugary beverage in their mouth and then spit it out, it still improves their athletic performance. It can't be merely sweet; artificial sweeteners didn't have the same effect.

Re: Study: Low Carb Diet May Prevent, Reverse Age-Related Effects Within the Brain

#249

Post by ypcx » Fri, Mar 06, 2020, 8:23 PM UTC

hanniabu wrote: post #112

ypcx wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my personal case I'm not really able to enter and maintain good ketosis levels without also fasting intermittently. Intermittent fasting is key to enabling me to lower my caloric input because of the momentum of the fasting phase carried over into the eating phase, e.g. smaller stomach and more effective metabolism. I currently fast about 12 hours per day (including the sleep phase), which doesn't sound like much…

> In my personal case I'm not really able to enter and maintain good ketosis levels How do you know if you've entered ketosis or what the levels are?

I test both via keto urine strips and via keto breath analyzer. But when you are on a strong keto, you simply know it, you can feel it by the increased amounts of body and brain energy, mental clarity. Also your urine is more yellow and has a more specific odor.

Re: Study: Low Carb Diet May Prevent, Reverse Age-Related Effects Within the Brain

#250

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet » Fri, Mar 06, 2020, 8:28 PM UTC

bad_user wrote: post #191

sizzle wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why did you give up? How we your energy levels? Did you drop weight easily?

I gave up because I felt awful ... problems sleeping, strong heart palpitations, hair falling off, left foot going numb, etc... all symptoms of nutrient deficiencies, which I couldn't correct via food or with supplements and that started disappearing within a week after giving up. And that entire time I did not lose weight, I actually gained a pound or two. If you're interested in losing weight, find a strategy for e…

> If you're interested in losing weight, find a strategy for eating less (by playing with what you eat or with meal timing).

I'd just like to chime in and echo this sentiment. I myself have lost and kept off between 2 and 3 times what parent has and it was also no thanks to keto, or any fad-diet bullshit.

There's no magic to losing weight. Consume less, expend more, weight loss ensues. Yes, it is that simple. No, that doesn't mean it is easy. There are many different paths but they all lead to the same place.