Study: Low Carb Diet May Prevent, Reverse Age-Related Effects Within the Brain • Hacker News Board

Re: Study: Low Carb Diet May Prevent, Reverse Age-Related Effects Within the Brain

#211

Post by simonsarris » Fri, Mar 06, 2020, 6:28 PM UTC

nscalf wrote: post #45

collyw wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this definite and scientific consensus? Nutrition research seems to change as often as JavaScript framework of the month. I saw one Ted talk that essentially said "everyone is different and no rules apply to everyone".

The real issue is that nutrition science is bad and everyone has a book. Maybe 1 in 20 studies don't have obvious confounding factors that cause us to have no real base facts, but we can find a lot of correlation. Unfortunately, this is kind of the nature of the beast, nutrition science isn't bad because nutrition scientists are bad, but rather because it's so complicated it's tough to have very clean data. Demonizin…

> Maybe 1 in 20 studies don't have obvious confounding factors that cause us to have no real base facts, but we can find a lot of correlation.

Even worse: Many studies are done on mice, who do not eat the same things as humans

And worse still: Many are done with "food surveys" which lean too much on the poor memory and faulty assumptions of participations (eg what some Americans think of as a serving of "meat" is really a serving of fried breaded bread with condiment levels of meat mixed in. Most Americans do not know that chicken nuggets are half corn. etc )

The people with the worst data may be the scientists, unfortunately. You can draw somewhat accurate conclusions from your own personal testing and anecdotes, but you might draw mightily wrong conclusions from survey data which appears to say something that simply isn't true.

Re: Study: Low Carb Diet May Prevent, Reverse Age-Related Effects Within the Brain

#212

Post by nscalf » Fri, Mar 06, 2020, 6:30 PM UTC

cageface wrote: post #138

nscalf wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The real issue is that nutrition science is bad and everyone has a book. Maybe 1 in 20 studies don't have obvious confounding factors that cause us to have no real base facts, but we can find a lot of correlation. Unfortunately, this is kind of the nature of the beast, nutrition science isn't bad because nutrition scientists are bad, but rather because it's so complicated it's tough to have very clean data. Demonizin…

The government may have been advocating low fat diets but of course people don't follow nutrition advice. If you look at what people were actually eating in the time you describe they started eating more of everything. Consumption of chicken and cheese in particular exploded. Sugar consumption has actually been in decline for years now and obesity keeps climbing. Yes sugar is bad for you but blaming modern health pro…

Yeah maybe I should be clear here, I'm not talking about putting granulated sugar in your coffee. I'm talking about the explosion of dumping high fructose corn syrup into everything that occurred during these years. And teaching children that they need to eat foods based off the food pyramid was directly opposite to what was actually good for you. Of course everyone doesn't listen to the government recommendations, but it's naive to say it doesn't have an impact.

In addition to that, eating a bagel for breakfast, a sandwich for lunch, and having bread on the side with dinner is pumping carbohydrates for you body to break down into sugars 24/7. These things are higher in calories.

To reinforce what you're suggesting, I'd need to see trends of added sugars to food going down and the obesity rate increasing. At the end of the day, it's calories in vs calories out, but pumping things with fructose increases the calories and the palatability of food, increasing how much you eat. There are a number of negative health side affects, but sugar likely causes obesity by secondary affect.

Re: Study: Low Carb Diet May Prevent, Reverse Age-Related Effects Within the Brain

#213

Post by fokinsean » Fri, Mar 06, 2020, 6:30 PM UTC

uptownfunk wrote: post #162

fokinsean wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's your regimen? Do you restrict what kinds of food you eat? What about alcohol? I've been interested in starting it.

Mostly plant based (occasional pizza or gelato maybe once a month), I do alternate day fasting, something like 40:8, fast 40 hours eat for 8.. try to avoid night eating, it makes me feel worse the next day.. maybe a bit much for some but I feel so much stronger as a result. Low caffeine.. probably too much fake meat/soy products for my own good..

Oh wow that's an intense fasting schedule (at least to me)!

I've been trying to be consistent about 16:8 during the week. Weekends usually mess me up due to alcohol...

I've noticed feeling more tired this year and am exploring ways to fight it. Maybe I need to kick down the caffeine as well.

Re: Study: Low Carb Diet May Prevent, Reverse Age-Related Effects Within the Brain

#214

Post by dnhz » Fri, Mar 06, 2020, 6:31 PM UTC

ryanSrich wrote: post #153

rconti wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anything that requires me to radically change my diet to experiment with myself "just to see", that takes a minimum of 2-3 months, is a hard pass. It's just not that interesting to most of us for a vaguely hand-wavey possibly useful experiment.

Full-on keto may not be worth it, but I would highly suggest removing most carbs from your diet (<= 30g per meal). You'll feel completely different within 5 days. This is especially noticeable after the age of 30. I have no scientific backing or research for this, but I've had a number of friends and family make this small change and every single one has not gone back. It's not even that difficult if you already have…

Yes you will feel like you have no energy during workouts. The primary fuel for muscles is glycogen. Cells use glucose by default. And fats are 9 cal/g, so they’re so easy to overeat. I don’t understand why limiting carbs makes any sense.

Re: Study: Low Carb Diet May Prevent, Reverse Age-Related Effects Within the Brain

#215

Post by throwaway_tech » Fri, Mar 06, 2020, 6:33 PM UTC

bad_user wrote: post #183

throwaway_tech wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Also most people are in ketosis before eating breakfast in the morning, because the liver's glycogen is partially depleted overnight This is true...but it gets to my point, just because your body begins breaking down fat and producing ketones (as shown in your tests) does not mean your cells have adapted to using ketones as fuel, that requires the body to adapt. Based on your numbers you were clearly breaking down f…

Yes, everything you're saying is a complete myth. Define what it means for the cells to adapt for " running on ketones ". There's no such thing. > " I would be surprised to learn you engage in lets say an hour of cardio 4-5 times a week " I ride my bike or walk to/from work about 10 Km every day and I do weight training 3 times per week, which puts me in the moderately active category.

>Yes, everything you're saying is a complete myth. Define what it means for the cells to adapt for "running on ketones".

>A ketogenic diet (KD) involves using fat, a high-density substrate, as the main source in daily calorie intake while restricting carbohydrate intake [21,22]. In this way, the liver is forced to produce and release ketone bodies into the circulation [23,24,25,26]. This phenomenon is called nutritional ketosis [27,28,29]. Over time, the body will acclimate to using ketone bodies as a primary fuel, which is called keto-adaptation, an element of fat-adaptation [30,31,32]. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6410243/

emphasis added citing the following study:

>Several days of dietary carbohydrate restriction to levels When maintained for several consecutive weeks, the metabolic state of ‘nutritional ketosis’ awakens a dormant set of genes and metabolic programs that counteract insulin resistance and manifest in several positive health outcomes. This process, referred to as ‘keto-adaptation’, is characterized by accelerated rates of whole body fatty acid oxidation, while glycolysis, insulin concentrations, insulin receptor activation and signaling, constitutive inflammation and oxidative stress are all decreased. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S24682...

Re: Study: Low Carb Diet May Prevent, Reverse Age-Related Effects Within the Brain

#216

Post by blhack » Fri, Mar 06, 2020, 6:41 PM UTC

ropiwqefjnpoa wrote: post #8

Sugar, not fat is the killer. Incredible how for decades bad research and the likes of Ancel Keys and Phil Sokolof put the health of millions at risk.

I don’t think it’s that simple. Sugar is much easier to farm en masse than fat is.

So switching to a sugar rich diet may have saved millions of people from starvation, but at the cost of the health of the individual.

So it is “better” for the aggregate, but worse for the individual.

Re: Study: Low Carb Diet May Prevent, Reverse Age-Related Effects Within the Brain

#217

Post by the_gastropod » Fri, Mar 06, 2020, 6:42 PM UTC

toomuchtodo wrote: post #204

the_gastropod wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This kind of conspiratorial thinking blows my mind. The claim is: big ag, with all their grain production, wants Americans to eat lots of grains, and corrupts government agencies to recommend such diets. The real healthy diets include lots of “protein” (meat), but “they don’t want you to know”... What’s incredibly absurd about this is: where do you think the vast majority of the farmed grain goes? Feeding the cows, c…

It's not a conspiracy per se. I don't think Big Ag and the government got into a room together and said, "we're going to kill everyone over time with a Western diet leading to obesity, type 2 diabetes, and eventually death". It's more simple than that: greed of industry and regulatory failure on the part of government. Mexico has one of the highest rates of Coca Cola consumption, it's even fed to babies instead of fo…

No no. I think we agree that there are capitalist-driven incentives that may be at odds with providing the best nutritional advice.

Where we differ (it seems?) is the implication that a diet rich in animal products (meat, cheese, eggs, etc) isn’t part of the Big Ag industry, but pasta, bread, cereal, etc. are. Livestock consume far more grain than the human population. So again, if big ag had any say (which, of course they do), they’d profit most by encouraging the consumption of meat, cheese, and eggs, not encouraging people to eat bread, pasta, and oatmeal. The fact that the USDA recommends eating whole grains at all is implicit proof that it’s not entirely corrupted by big ag.

Re: Study: Low Carb Diet May Prevent, Reverse Age-Related Effects Within the Brain

#218

Post by com2kid » Fri, Mar 06, 2020, 6:43 PM UTC

bad_user wrote: post #149

throwaway_tech wrote: post #17

The title is terrible, it should read ketosis/ketones may prevent, reverse age-related effects within the brain. "Low carb" as the title currently reads does not necessarily result in ketosis and your body/brain running on ketones, which appears to be the scope of this study. There is more to dietary ketosis than low carb, just as an example carnivore or paleo diets are low carb, but those will generally not result i…

> If you have never entered ketosis and experienced your brain running on ketones, I would suggest you experiment for yourself. I would say a minimum 2-3 months which should be enough time for your microbiome to change and your body/brain to adapt primarily running on ketones. I've been on Keto for about 8 months (before giving up), measuring my blood ketones and being in deep ketosis between meals (over 2 mmol/L). I…

There is plenty of work showing that physical endurance increases after extended periods on keto. Athletes have carefully tracked their performance numbers day by day and demonstrated real changes.

And as someone who participates in activities that require large amounts of endurance, I know on keto my ability to perform for extended periods of time is higher. These aren't "I think" numbers, they are "polar heart rate monitor strapped to my chest" numbers.

The very nature of keto leads to improved endurance, fat is a much more plentiful energy source than glucose, it may be less efficient (lifting heavy on keto is a well known problem), but it /never/ runs out. If someone is doing an activity that doesn't cause excessive lactic acid build up or complete muscle fatigue, then a keto will give an endurance advantage.

Re: Study: Low Carb Diet May Prevent, Reverse Age-Related Effects Within the Brain

#219

Post by toomuchtodo » Fri, Mar 06, 2020, 6:44 PM UTC

the_gastropod wrote: post #217

toomuchtodo wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a conspiracy per se. I don't think Big Ag and the government got into a room together and said, "we're going to kill everyone over time with a Western diet leading to obesity, type 2 diabetes, and eventually death". It's more simple than that: greed of industry and regulatory failure on the part of government. Mexico has one of the highest rates of Coca Cola consumption, it's even fed to babies instead of fo…

No no. I think we agree that there are capitalist-driven incentives that may be at odds with providing the best nutritional advice. Where we differ (it seems?) is the implication that a diet rich in animal products (meat, cheese, eggs, etc) isn’t part of the Big Ag industry, but pasta, bread, cereal, etc. are. Livestock consume far more grain than the human population. So again, if big ag had any say (which, of cours…

I would agree with this, and concede that my original comment was not as accurate as it could be representing historical events that have led us to this point.

Re: Study: Low Carb Diet May Prevent, Reverse Age-Related Effects Within the Brain

#220

Post by nikkwong » Fri, Mar 06, 2020, 6:45 PM UTC

I don't really understand the briefing here; so would taking exogenous ketones also help mirror the beneficial effects of ketosis seen in this study? They did mention feeding their participants exogenous ketones but didn't say anything about those peoples' carb/fat ratios.

I'm all for jumping on the high fat/low carb diet; however, I love getting all my polyphenols and other beneficial compounds that are part and parcel with eating plants (higher carb). As many benefits we see from being in ketosis, we also have tons of data on the health benefits of eating plants, so I've been confused as to how to get the best of both worlds here.