Not being an asshole will make you more money • Hacker News Board

Re: Not being an asshole will make you more money

#51

Post by Ididntdothis » Fri, Mar 06, 2020, 5:59 PM UTC

gameswithgo wrote: post #37

Ididntdothis wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s a common negotiation strategy to be a complete ass and wearing people down. A lot of people will give in just to keep the peace. It also works to ask for more concessions right before closing the deal. You just have to be shameless. I think that’s why sociopaths tend to do well in business.

Once word gets around though, it starts to harm you in the long run. I worked for a company where one of the owners seemed to have a world view that everyone is trying to screw you over, so you better screw them over first. After I left I had a friend ask about the company, because they were about to a deal with them. I gave my honest opinion and suggested they be sure to get any money up front and be very careful to…

I am not so sure about that. When I was consultant I had several clients that were a complete pain to deal with but they also had a lot of money to spend so it was worth it in the end. When I read business biographies I get the impression that a lot of successful people/companies like Gates, Jobs, Ellison or Walmart are really hard to do business with. They will exploit you as soon as you make the slightest mistake but if you play everything right you can make good money.

Re: Not being an asshole will make you more money

#52

Post by throwaway55554 » Fri, Mar 06, 2020, 5:59 PM UTC

BigBubbleButt wrote: post #18

fenwick67 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

6 out of the top 15 American billionaires inherited their wealth, that is the secret to wealth, have rich parents.

And 9 out of the top 10 American billionaires are self-made. It's amazing how you can use the same data to argue the opposite point, just on how you frame it.

> And 9 out of the top 10 American billionaires are self-made.

Is there really such a thing as self-made? I honestly don't believe so. Otherwise, I think more people would do it.

Re: Not being an asshole will make you more money

#53

Post by gshdg » Fri, Mar 06, 2020, 5:59 PM UTC

BigBubbleButt wrote: post #18

fenwick67 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

6 out of the top 15 American billionaires inherited their wealth, that is the secret to wealth, have rich parents.

And 9 out of the top 10 American billionaires are self-made. It's amazing how you can use the same data to argue the opposite point, just on how you frame it.

Majority isn't so much what matters.

The percentage of people with significant inherited wealth who becomes billionaires far exceeds the percentage of people with significant inherited wealth in the general population.

Thus, inheriting wealth has an enormous impact on the likelihood of becoming a billionaire in America.

Re: Not being an asshole will make you more money

#54

Post by circlefavshape » Fri, Mar 06, 2020, 6:00 PM UTC

Reputation information doesn't always flow freely.

After agreeing the purchase of the site for the house I'm now sitting in, the sellers changed their asking price, tried to pull out of the sale after we got planning permission, accused us of swindling them, and the night before we fenced the property moved the boundary markers.

When it was all done and dusted one of our neighbours said "it's great to see someone getting the better of $FAMILY_X". Seems like we weren't entitled to access to their reputations until we'd started to build the house, and became true locals

Re: Not being an asshole will make you more money

#55

Post by bcrosby95 » Fri, Mar 06, 2020, 6:00 PM UTC

gameswithgo wrote: post #37

Ididntdothis wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s a common negotiation strategy to be a complete ass and wearing people down. A lot of people will give in just to keep the peace. It also works to ask for more concessions right before closing the deal. You just have to be shameless. I think that’s why sociopaths tend to do well in business.

Once word gets around though, it starts to harm you in the long run. I worked for a company where one of the owners seemed to have a world view that everyone is trying to screw you over, so you better screw them over first. After I left I had a friend ask about the company, because they were about to a deal with them. I gave my honest opinion and suggested they be sure to get any money up front and be very careful to…

This kinda seems like a just world fallacy. It might get around, it might not - I'm not sure its really known either way. But we like to hope people that regularly behave like assholes eventually get punished for it.

Re: Not being an asshole will make you more money

#56

Post by commandlinefan » Fri, Mar 06, 2020, 6:00 PM UTC

koheripbal wrote: post #12

The major flaw in this article is that it does not defined what constitutes "asshole" behavior. There is a difference, for example, between being vindictive towards others, and simply pushing people out of their comfort zone. The term "asshole" is so vague that it borders on useless.

Even if you could come up with a good definition, it would still be a silly assertion. He’s wrong: not being an asshole won’t make you more money. Being an asshole will also not make you more money. How nice or not nice you are to other people is almost entirely unrelated to how much money you make.

Re: Not being an asshole will make you more money

#57

Post by gigatexal » Fri, Mar 06, 2020, 6:01 PM UTC

But, but ... nice guys (and girls) finish last - or so the saying goes. It’s been my experience that the belligerent and those that take charge and those that are just the loudest garner more attention and cash. That’s not me though.

Re: Not being an asshole will make you more money

#58

Post by pc86 » Fri, Mar 06, 2020, 6:02 PM UTC

seanhunter wrote: post #5

I have an example. In a previous role was in a position where we were negotiating a large-ish (>1M USD) multi-year contract when our client asked us to also do a proof of concept about some topic. It was just 1 week or 2 weeks so I said it would be free but because of various regulatory stuff we needed a contract in place. I was dealing with the same purchasing lawyer on both contracts. The process was super-standard…

Except this has been tried before and they typically end in one of three outcomes:

1) It was a mistake and it doesn't go to court.

2) It was intentional and it doesn't go to court because the attorney, while still being a piece of shit, understands what option 3 is.

3) It was intentional, it goes to court, and you produce the email evidence showing the attorney agreed to changeset N then sent along changeset N-1, and the provisions are thrown out because they were executed in bad faith.

Re: Not being an asshole will make you more money

#59

Post by SketchySeaBeast » Fri, Mar 06, 2020, 6:03 PM UTC

Ididntdothis wrote: post #7

jacquesm wrote: post #6

Most of the billionaires are assholes and/or criminals with a couple of noteworthy exceptions. So maybe not being an asshole will get you ahead in the middle but it won't get you all the way to the top of the foodchain. So this is solid advice, but unfortunately the role models are exactly those people that didn't follow this sort of advice. Microsoft, Amazon, Oracle, Apple, Google and Facebook all would not have bee…

That's what bothers me about all the adoration "billionaires" are getting lately. These guys got where they are by taking advantage of whatever they could, not by being generous or nice.

It's not even that - people venerate the results of luck. For every "self-made" billionaire, there's untold legions of people who had nearly the extra same formula, but were just a little off. Sure, a lot of them worked hard and had good ideas, but so do tons of people. Somehow it's more acceptable to think these people earned their success more than a simple lottery winner, whose long hours and hard work at their janitorial job gave them enough free cash to buy a ticket.

Re: Not being an asshole will make you more money

#60

Post by Loughla » Fri, Mar 06, 2020, 6:03 PM UTC

mediaman wrote: post #42

meritt wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> by backing out all of our changes and only putting in his changes That so feels like a mistake because that's the sort of tactic that would completely and utterly remove their capability of ever working as a corporate lawyer ever again for any company. If that genuinely happened, that lawyer needs to be disbarred, but that's a pretty damn egregious accusation.

It's not that easy to accept only your own changes though. You can accept all changes, or reject all changes, but accepting only your own and rejecting others, at least in Word, takes specific effort.

I attribute user error and stupidity when most people attribute malicious intent. 99% of the time, I am correct.

I'm betting that, if the lawyer was not acting maliciously, s/he used the wrong version of the document to accept changes.