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Swedes rebelling against a cashless society (2018)

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Re: Swedes rebelling against a cashless society (2018)

#241

Post by LeonidasXIV »

Svip wrote: post #31
jbergens wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are newer solutions like iZettle for cards that costs less. In Sweden we also have Swish, payment by smartphone without cards, but that is also a bit harder for older people.

I've encountered one merchant in Denmark using iZettle. He has since replaced it with the regular PoS. I can only imagine that is more expensive for him, but I wonder why he abandoned iZettle? Maybe it doesn't work that well? I am honestly wondering why I don't see more usage of iZettle. It could just be a Danish thing. And yes, there is Swish/MobilePay, but that only really works if you're local. A tourist - even on…

What? I encounter them pretty often in Copenhagen. Usually lower throughput places though, probably because the connectivity and the tablet app is a bit clunky but I would guess it is way easier to get started with this.

Re: Swedes rebelling against a cashless society (2018)

#242

Post by zoomablemind »

The convenience of electronic payments is obvious. But cashless sounds more like a restriction, indeed inconvenience.

Say, one lost a wallet and phone (robbed or just that, lost) and needs to get back home somehow. Public transportation requires an electronic ticket, cab needs card. What's then?

Walk to your bank branch, explain to driver the story and pay later, hope a compelled passenger would pay for you?

Lending someone a dollar does not oblige one whether you trust the person on not. Paying for one directly is more involved. Surely people don't lend their cards to strangers, willfully.

Re: Swedes rebelling against a cashless society (2018)

#243

Post by JoeAltmaier »

digestiv3 wrote: post #240

A lot of the comments to this post talks about the dangers with a cashless society in terms of giving up the right to privacy. While that might be true right now one must remember that the technological advances of cashless payments are very new and we must work towards a cashless payment solution that can meet the privacy needs that cash provides. Saying that "you should always be able to pay with cash if you want"…

In the US, cash money is enshrined in the Constitution. It'll take a significant act of Congress to change that. So a long history of cash as a civil right.

Re: Swedes rebelling against a cashless society (2018)

#244

Post by 2rsf »

tyfon wrote: post #173
johnlorentzson wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it's become a standard that almost everyone is expected to use.

We got a system in Norway called Vipps for small transactions that I refuse to take part in but it seems like 99% of the rest of the population are using it. I've yet to have anyone refuse to pay me via direct bank transfer or me paying them in this way when I ask and explain why I don't use Vipps.

> explain why I don't use Vipps

please explain. direct bank transfers are still slow (same bank) to unacceptable (different banks) for most payments

Re: Swedes rebelling against a cashless society (2018)

#245

Post by cko »

Hitton wrote: post #213
cko wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm quite interested in your setup. You walk around with a feature phone and some bills? Sounds really Zen. I would like to get to that point. How do you navigate without Maps, Uber, etc.? Do your friends know you won't reply to texts? Maybe I'll buy a separate flip phone and leave the smart phone and credit cards at home just in case.

>How do you navigate without Maps, Uber, etc.? Do your friends know you won't reply to texts? It's crazy how everyday reality from 20 years ago is now seen as unimaginable as hermitic living.

I just moved to Europe from the US so it is not easy to have no backup navigation app. OP mentioned he had moved recently.

Re: Swedes rebelling against a cashless society (2018)

#246

Post by jandrese »

Legogris wrote: post #215
alkonaut wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Much of the current Swedish society is currently closed to me, Yes. Because not carrying a smartphone and a credit card in Sweden and only carrying cash is basically like traveling in from Japan with a bunch of Yen in your hand. Of course society isn't open to you if you don't carry the local currency (which is card and smartphone transactions). A bit exaggerated, perhaps, but that's where we are now, like you noti…

You mean some sort of digital cash? Perhaps settled on a publicly accessible ledger with decentralized infrastructure not relying on any single party? Preferably permissionless to utilize but resilient to attacks and not putting the operators of the infrastructure in a privileged position of power with regards to private information?

And also handling millions of transactions per day with minimal resource requirements of course.

Re: Swedes rebelling against a cashless society (2018)

#247

Post by LeonidasXIV »

jks wrote: post #46
Svip wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've encountered one merchant in Denmark using iZettle. He has since replaced it with the regular PoS. I can only imagine that is more expensive for him, but I wonder why he abandoned iZettle? Maybe it doesn't work that well? I am honestly wondering why I don't see more usage of iZettle. It could just be a Danish thing. And yes, there is Swish/MobilePay, but that only really works if you're local. A tourist - even on…

We have MobilePay in Finland, but I don't know if it interoperates with the Danish system. Denmark is part of the Single Euro Payments Area, so I would expect transfers to be possible. There were iZettles in many Helsinki cafés a few years ago, but it seems to me that most of them have been replaced by normal PoS terminals.

Finnish MobilePay, despite being owned by the same bank, is not interoperable with Danish MobilePay. Its stupid that every Nordic country is its own mobile-payment island.

Re: Swedes rebelling against a cashless society (2018)

#248

Post by cko »

new2628 wrote: post #181
cko wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm quite interested in your setup. You walk around with a feature phone and some bills? Sounds really Zen. I would like to get to that point. How do you navigate without Maps, Uber, etc.? Do your friends know you won't reply to texts? Maybe I'll buy a separate flip phone and leave the smart phone and credit cards at home just in case.

Not the OP, but I walk around with a bunch of bills and occasionally a feature phone, most often no phone whatsoever. It works perfectly fine, my friends keep in touch with me in more roundabout ways, usually drop me an e-mail or call the landline when I'm home or in my office. It amuses me that it sounds like zen buddhism or something super extreme when it is how almost everyone operated 5-10 years ago.

I was a practicing Buddhist for years. When I say Zen it's the pop culture connotation of the word, not specifically referring to Buddhism itself.

I was 19 before I got a cell phone. Now I travel internationally quite frequently so I'm jealous of people who are can go no phone.

Also I didn't have friends or a real job until I was 25, so though I grew up with AOL CD ROMs and Netscape and dialup and cassette tapes, the start of my social life coincided with smartphone ownership.

Re: Swedes rebelling against a cashless society (2018)

#249

Post by 2rsf »

TurningCanadian wrote: post #205
Freak_NL wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what really irks me here in the Netherlands too. I'm fine with digital payments (e.g., contactless debit cards) for the bulk of transactions, but cash should be guarded as a valid alternative. The past year I've several times been in a store where digital transactions didn't work for one reason or another (telephone line got cut by roadworks, internet modem crashed, etc.). Fine, I'll just pay with cash in the…

I don't think there's anything inherent to digital transactions that requires a working connection.

your bank balance ? unless you have a digital wallet that stores a balance locally

Re: Swedes rebelling against a cashless society (2018)

#250

Post by ryuukk_ »

zoomablemind wrote: post #242

The convenience of electronic payments is obvious. But cashless sounds more like a restriction, indeed inconvenience. Say, one lost a wallet and phone (robbed or just that, lost) and needs to get back home somehow. Public transportation requires an electronic ticket, cab needs card. What's then? Walk to your bank branch, explain to driver the story and pay later, hope a compelled passenger would pay for you? Lending…

if you lost your wallet, you lost your paper money too
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