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Swedes rebelling against a cashless society (2018)

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Re: Swedes rebelling against a cashless society (2018)

#51

Post by kungtotte »

reaperducer wrote: post #5
jamesblonde wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That article is out of date. In large parts of central Stockholm, you can't pay by cash. Legal tender is just words, if they don't take cash there's not much you can do.

So how do poor people function in a cashless society?

Go to any number of places that still accept cash?

Our major grocery store chains all still accept cash (ICA, Coop, Willys, Hemköp etc.) and at least ICA and Coop sells pretty much -everything- at their larger stores. They don't sell mattresses or furniture I guess, but you can go there with enough money and come out fully equipped to go camping for example. IKEA also accepts cash still, so you can buy your furniture there. Or even go get a nice meal there; a plate of meatballs and mashed potatoes costs 39 SEK (~3.7€, $4.1 USD). A BigMac&Co costs twice as much as a frame of reference.

I (a Swede) am able to use cash every single day, and it's not an effort to do so.

Re: Swedes rebelling against a cashless society (2018)

#52

Post by username90 »

onion2k wrote: post #33
techsupporter wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You should always be able to pay with cash if you want. Why, other than your privacy? If I own a business, why should I be barred from choosing to not accept cash? Paper money is more labor-intensive to handle and opens my employees up to risk of being robbed for that cash or sickened by handling dirty bills. As for people who may not be able to pay electronically, why can I not choose to not have them as customers…

Why, other than your privacy? Businesses that don't accept cash don't make any money when the infrastructure fails. If your revenue is dependent on your PoS device, Wi-Fi, ISP, payment provider, the payment provider's network infrastructure, banking network, and more that's a lot of risk. For most independent businesses having a working cash register and a bank account that enables cash deposits would be a better opt…

This doesn't appear to be an issue in Sweden though, most people don't even carry cash on them.

Re: Swedes rebelling against a cashless society (2018)

#53

Post by ptr »

eitland wrote: post #42

In Norway, next to Sweden, accepting cash is mandatory and you can get fined (after a warning it seems) if you don't. The reasoning is we don't want everything to break down just because the power grid or backbone networks breaks down.

Unfortunately a lot of things tend to break down anyway when the power is gone: doors won't open, PoS machines won't work, etc. What might work is actually cell phone payments due to the towers having power backup.

Re: Swedes rebelling against a cashless society (2018)

#55

Post by sgt »

nnq wrote: post #40

Cash in the only practical anonymous-when-you-need-it-to-be way to pay still. Don't let it die until we have alternative suitable anonymous and un-blockable-by-cyberattacks (eg. "it must still work while the internet is down") currencies! (Note: no, we don't have yet, all current crypto currencies are "barely working prototypes" at best, all of them have issues that still need ironing out! Bitcoin itself is like a pr…

Agreed, I don't use a lot of cash but I do seriously appreciate that it exists. And although infrastructure is robust, it won't be in a crisis or a war situation. Even in Sweden you could look at days, weeks, months without Internet and connectivity if something serious should happen.

Re: Swedes rebelling against a cashless society (2018)

#56

Post by parski »

LessDmesg wrote: post #11

And when the (broke) Swedish government raises taxes sky-high, they will all flock to cash, gold, bitcoin and other off-the-radar payment methods.

If the Swedish government was broke it would still have access to universal healthcare and a free first class education.

Re: Swedes rebelling against a cashless society (2018)

#57

Post by throwaway99674 »

username90 wrote: post #35
jussij wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From your link: > In some EU countries, your bank might still charge you an annual fee for this basic payment account. This fee should remain reasonable. For someone who is really poor, that annual account keeping fee is a much bigger hit to their pocket when compared to others not doing it so tough.

It is around $20 a year, there are no people poor enough for that to be an issue in Europe.

Believe me, there are people in Europe for who paying 20€ extra can be an issue. Even worse: unexpectedly having to pay 20€. Source: been there, done that.

Re: Swedes rebelling against a cashless society (2018)

#58

Post by bobthepanda »

maximente wrote: post #39
techsupporter wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You should always be able to pay with cash if you want. Why, other than your privacy? If I own a business, why should I be barred from choosing to not accept cash? Paper money is more labor-intensive to handle and opens my employees up to risk of being robbed for that cash or sickened by handling dirty bills. As for people who may not be able to pay electronically, why can I not choose to not have them as customers…

two reasons come to mind immediately: - it is low key discrimination of un/underbanked. imagine a "cashless utopia" where the only way you can buy groceries is by either: * paying a "human usage fee" to use the cash line because businesses have axed labor down to the bone * for those of the "efficiency" mindset, who just don't accept cash at all, the only way to get a credit or debit card is paying a bank a nice mont…

> what's the environmental impact of having all this tech running (POS terminal, CC database, all the steps in between)? is it >> cash? i don't know the answer here, though.

I mean, cash has to be physically transported, and in large enough volumes you'd need an armored vehicle, which I imagine has pretty poor energy efficiency.

Re: Swedes rebelling against a cashless society (2018)

#59

Post by lawn »

techsupporter wrote: post #24
notRobot wrote: post #2

Being able to pay through cards and phones is super convenient, but cash should never not be an option. Card companies, payment apps and banks are constantly tracking your purchases and profiling you. This data can be leaked/stolen/sold, and is always available to governments and those in/with power. Cash is (almost completely) anonymous. You should always be able to pay with cash if you want.

> You should always be able to pay with cash if you want. Why, other than your privacy? If I own a business, why should I be barred from choosing to not accept cash? Paper money is more labor-intensive to handle and opens my employees up to risk of being robbed for that cash or sickened by handling dirty bills. As for people who may not be able to pay electronically, why can I not choose to not have them as customers…

It's not really a problem if only your business don't accept them as customers, but what happens when everyone does the same?

Re: Swedes rebelling against a cashless society (2018)

#60

Post by lkramer »

dehrmann wrote: post #12
notRobot wrote: post #2

Being able to pay through cards and phones is super convenient, but cash should never not be an option. Card companies, payment apps and banks are constantly tracking your purchases and profiling you. This data can be leaked/stolen/sold, and is always available to governments and those in/with power. Cash is (almost completely) anonymous. You should always be able to pay with cash if you want.

> Being able to pay through cards and phones is super convenient I was very impressed by Sydney's train between the airport and city that can take assorted contactless payments at the turnstile. None of this figuring out how many zones I need a ticket for or buying a $20 card and only using $9.50.

The London Underground has the same thing. It will automatically calculate what you pay based on how many journeys and what zones you travel within, using either a dedicated card or contactless.
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