Purge site data when site identified via old tracking cookies • Hacker News Board

Re: Purge site data when site identified via old tracking cookies

#71

Post by numpad0 » Fri, Mar 06, 2020, 4:55 AM UTC

ghostpepper wrote: post #30

JohnFen wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I wouldn't mind going back to a JavaScript-less web experience. My default policy is to not allow JS to run, so my experience is already mostly Javascriptless. And, I have to say, my user experience on most web sites is actually better when I don't allow Javascript to execute.

I run a similar sort of policy but I would say the number of sites I visit that display nothing but a blank page without javascript is more than half. Sites that function without it are the exception, not the rule.

What would be the ways to keep JavaScript virtually “off” but viewable?

I mean, it’s all the same framework-min.js working like a modern COBOL, not like custom mathematically significant compression or advanced dynamic P2P webpage distribution, right? Feels to me like a meta rendering engine could be created so none of the functions needs to be runtime evaluated or content be fetched by it or whatnot.

Re: Purge site data when site identified via old tracking cookies

#72

Post by matheusmoreira » Fri, Mar 06, 2020, 5:01 AM UTC

ficklepickle wrote: post #41

JMTQp8lwXL wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By reasonably formatted, I would actually exclude onhover. To clarify, I meant a document that would be readable without any interaction. You've got me wondering if privacy-focused browsers like Brave have the ability to disable potential tracking mechanisms like onhover.

Disabling CSS :hover and :active states might break sites. Tracking pixels could be as simple as a background image set for either of those CSS states.

Browsers could disable downloading of external resources for CSS :hover and :active. When the user interacts with the interface, the CSS will still get applied but the tracking URL won't be accessed.

Re: Purge site data when site identified via old tracking cookies

#73

Post by wtallis » Fri, Mar 06, 2020, 5:33 AM UTC

ghostpepper wrote: post #30

JohnFen wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I wouldn't mind going back to a JavaScript-less web experience. My default policy is to not allow JS to run, so my experience is already mostly Javascriptless. And, I have to say, my user experience on most web sites is actually better when I don't allow Javascript to execute.

I run a similar sort of policy but I would say the number of sites I visit that display nothing but a blank page without javascript is more than half. Sites that function without it are the exception, not the rule.

I've found that about half of the sites that render a blank page without JS are just setting style="visibility: hidden" on the element. I cannot think of any good reason for browsers to continue to allow that CSS property to be set on that element. "Flash of unstyled content" is not a valid concern here.

Re: Purge site data when site identified via old tracking cookies

#74

Post by saagarjha » Fri, Mar 06, 2020, 5:34 AM UTC

wtallis wrote: post #73

ghostpepper wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I run a similar sort of policy but I would say the number of sites I visit that display nothing but a blank page without javascript is more than half. Sites that function without it are the exception, not the rule.

I've found that about half of the sites that render a blank page without JS are just setting style="visibility: hidden" on the element. I cannot think of any good reason for browsers to continue to allow that CSS property to be set on that element. "Flash of unstyled content" is not a valid concern here.

> "Flash of unstyled content" is not a valid concern here.

Well, presumably it is to some people, or they wouldn't be setting it…

Re: Purge site data when site identified via old tracking cookies

#75

Post by saagarjha » Fri, Mar 06, 2020, 5:35 AM UTC

numpad0 wrote: post #71

ghostpepper wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I run a similar sort of policy but I would say the number of sites I visit that display nothing but a blank page without javascript is more than half. Sites that function without it are the exception, not the rule.

What would be the ways to keep JavaScript virtually “off” but viewable? I mean, it’s all the same framework-min.js working like a modern COBOL, not like custom mathematically significant compression or advanced dynamic P2P webpage distribution, right? Feels to me like a meta rendering engine could be created so none of the functions needs to be runtime evaluated or content be fetched by it or whatnot.

Trying to emulate running JavaScript will quickly devolve into running it, but slowly and poorly.

Re: Purge site data when site identified via old tracking cookies

#76

Post by saagarjha » Fri, Mar 06, 2020, 5:37 AM UTC

XCSme wrote: post #59

3xblah wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I wouldn't mind going back to a JavaScript-less experience." By not using a graphical, JavaScript-enabled browser, I have been experiencing the web this way for the last 15 years. It works just fine for the purposes I use if for, mainly informational retrieval. For me, there is no such thing as "page load time". This shifts all awareness to "server response time". This is more or less the same from one website to an…

How do you collapse comments on HackerNews?

I keep JavaScript on, but I rarely collapse comments. I could probably browse Hacker News without JavaScript if I wanted to, because they've taken care to make most of it work.

Re: Purge site data when site identified via old tracking cookies

#77

Post by saagarjha » Fri, Mar 06, 2020, 5:39 AM UTC

BubRoss wrote: post #18

majkinetor wrote: post #2

And in v80 in alternate universe, Firefox will purge the sites from the Internet, after the data. Somebody please point me to the portal...

That's called pi-hole and having it network wide is a game changer. 30% of all dns requests are blocked.

I fail to understand the widespread appeal of a Raspberry Pi (slow?) that only blocks requests on your homework network.

Re: Purge site data when site identified via old tracking cookies

#78

Post by ryantgtg » Fri, Mar 06, 2020, 5:47 AM UTC

throwsprtsdy wrote: post #10

JMTQp8lwXL wrote: post #3

I wouldn't mind going back to a JavaScript-less web experience. I know not all tracking is based on JS, but the browser provides so many heuristics this way: screen size, cursor location, installed plugins. Give me reasonably formatted HTML, and something a little bit more powerful than curl.

I wish there was simply a way where ad-supported sites I visit could collect their revenue without having me submit to advertiser surveillance. I don't mind seeing ads. I hate being tracked.

I pay for the LA Times, and I also block ads. A couple weeks ago they updated the site so that I got a giant “you are blocking ads!!” banner even when I was logged in. I complained to them (directly), saying that I pay for a subscription so that I can give them money without viewing ads. And... they agreed that paying readers should not see those warnings! And they updated the site within the same day.

I thought that was cool.

Re: Purge site data when site identified via old tracking cookies

#79

Post by BubRoss » Fri, Mar 06, 2020, 5:48 AM UTC

saagarjha wrote: post #77

BubRoss wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's called pi-hole and having it network wide is a game changer. 30% of all dns requests are blocked.

I fail to understand the widespread appeal of a Raspberry Pi (slow?) that only blocks requests on your homework network.

It is a DNS server that makes every ad and tracking domain route to nothing. It speeds everything up and uses an almost undetectable amount of resources. It could be done in the router with different software I'm guessing, but I use tomato firmware which isn't great for huge DNS block lists.

Re: Purge site data when site identified via old tracking cookies

#80

Post by saagarjha » Fri, Mar 06, 2020, 5:55 AM UTC

BubRoss wrote: post #79

saagarjha wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I fail to understand the widespread appeal of a Raspberry Pi (slow?) that only blocks requests on your homework network.

It is a DNS server that makes every ad and tracking domain route to nothing. It speeds everything up and uses an almost undetectable amount of resources. It could be done in the router with different software I'm guessing, but I use tomato firmware which isn't great for huge DNS block lists.

I mean, yes, I know what Pi-Hole does. I just fail to see why it's better than a hosts list on your computer, for example: that works wherever you are and you don't need fancy software for it. Plus it's "infinitely worse" than a normal adblocker when browsing the internet.