Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Money Won’t Buy You Health Insurance

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

361–370 of 442 posts

Re: Money Won’t Buy You Health Insurance

#361

Post by cookiecaper »

rdouble wrote: post #123
carlygeehr wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I challenge anyone with a painful but non-life-threatening injury - say, a torn labrum, or a torn ACL - to go live in Canada or the UK and see what their treatment is like compared to here. Anyone?

This is the dark side of the Canadian system. Long waits for elective care. My dad is a doctor near the Canadian border and a good % of patients in his local system are Canadians who are coming down to pay out of pocket for elective surgeries they would have to wait for years to get in Canada. On the other hand, another hot business in my homeland was sending busloads of senior citizens up to Canada to buy cheaper ge…

It does sound like the Toronto or Vancouver areas may be the sweet spot for health coverage. Just a short jaunt to the US to partake in that system and permanent residence in Canada to make it plausible to live without working at BigCo.

Re: Money Won’t Buy You Health Insurance

#362

Post by dalke »

WildUtah wrote: post #324
enjo wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do realize how terrible that idea is right? We'd see the rates of antibiotic resistant bacteria go through the roof in the first week.

Lots of countries have sold antibiotics freely but the epidemic of resistence mostly seems to show up in the prescription-only countries where doctors push antibiotics on everyone with a cold in order to justify their offensive office visit fees. Also, even if there is a case for antibiotics, there still isn't any case for 95% of medications.

Any evidence for your claim? Drug resistant TB is highest in "the former USSR, the Baltic states, Argentina, India, and China, and was associated with poor or failing national tuberculosis control programmes". Some 10-40% of the people who take antibiotics don't finish a course of treatment because they are feeling better and think they don't need the hassle any more.

The WHO and various countries including the US say there is an association with antibiotics in animal feeds and an increase in antibiotic resistance in human diseases. This has nothing to do with "doctors pushing antibodies."

Drug resistant staph was first found in the UK. Do doctors in the UK face the same pressure to justify their so-called offensive office visit fees?

Re: Money Won’t Buy You Health Insurance

#363

Post by cookiecaper »

uygtfrgtyjuhk wrote: post #55
SandB0x wrote: post #32

I would have died at the age of 19 if it weren't for the help of the UK's National Health Service. My parents and I didn't have to worry about hospital bills, future insurance issues, being tied to a job, any of that crap. Just get some rest, get better, go out there and be productive again. The American system looks like a horrible joke from over here. I just can't understand any of it.

In the UK, or anywhere else in Europe, or Canada - or pretty much any other capitalist country - you can leave your job for a better paying one or to start your own wealth creating business. This allows the country to maximize the value of your labor. In the US you can't leave your job to start your own business because your children might get sick and die. Even leaving for another employer is tricky because there is…

A stipulation of most group insurance plans is that the insurer will not deny coverage to any person in the group. Most people switching jobs will not have to worry about insurability if they are switching to an established company with an extant group plan. Working for such an employer is in fact one of the only ways many people can get health insurance.

A six or twelve month wait is also unusual on switching jobs. Generally it will take ~60 days from hire for the new insurance to kick in, but rarely more than 90.

Re: Money Won’t Buy You Health Insurance

#364

Post by dalke »

bzbarsky wrote: post #168
dalke wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You say it, but you don't back it up with evidence. How is it that the US already pays more money per person for health care but with measurably worse results (measured as life expectancy, infant mortality, etc). How do they achieve what you call impossible?

The US pays more money because it has more health care being provided, in many cases. It just so happens that more health care doesn't necessarily translate to measurably better outcomes (e.g. cancer screening helps reduce mortality for some cancers but not others). It also just so happens that it's very rare to study whether a particular care regimen actually improves overall outcomes as opposed to just the thing it…

So we pay more money then other countries but don't get better outcomes? Could we save money and get the same outcomes? And since we get worse outcomes then they do, could we spend less and still get better outcomes?

How do you defined "more health care?"

Re: Money Won’t Buy You Health Insurance

#365

Post by rdtsc »

100k wrote: post #263
dualogy wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"What would happen to the food market were it not for the generally high supply of food? It wouldn't be pretty." You turned cause and effect upside down. You think the free market for food "works" because food supply is "abundant"? Think again. The supply is high because it's market is "free" (not really but fairly) globally and (sorta) works.

If only doctors were as easy to grow as carrots...

They sure are not more expensive to grow than good engeers or teachers?

And of course, they will grow better if they eat their carrots ;-)

Re: Money Won’t Buy You Health Insurance

#366

Post by danssig »

iwwr wrote: post #347
danssig wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For someone who puts so much faith in free markets you don't appear to understand how they work. In your studies, look up "market elasticity" for a clue.

How is that relevant here?

Health care is, by definition, an inelastic market.

Re: Money Won’t Buy You Health Insurance

#367

Post by cookiecaper »

DanI-S wrote: post #107
SandB0x wrote: post #32

I would have died at the age of 19 if it weren't for the help of the UK's National Health Service. My parents and I didn't have to worry about hospital bills, future insurance issues, being tied to a job, any of that crap. Just get some rest, get better, go out there and be productive again. The American system looks like a horrible joke from over here. I just can't understand any of it.

I moved to the US from the UK over a year ago and I can't find words to describe the feeling of not having the NHS to rely on. This whole new world of potential disaster has opened up. It's something you've never had to think about before that is now at the forefront of your consciousness. You can be young, fit and healthy, but get hit by a car and your life is over. Once you're bankrupted by medical fees, you'll nev…

While a bankruptcy does stick around a long time (10 years iirc, 3 more than the Jubilee standard for which other credit entries endure), it's not true that "you'll never have good credit again". Many people in the US have gone bankrupt and they are still able to buy and finance homes, cars, and obtain other credit-dependent financial products. Generally it's 1-2 years after bankruptcy where no one will have anything to do with you, but after that, you can be considered a normal person again.

Of course, that presupposes you don't need to pay out-of-pocket for major medical care more than once every 5-10 years.

Re: Money Won’t Buy You Health Insurance

#368

Post by cookiecaper »

jasonkester wrote: post #313
acabal wrote: post #2

This really highlights how utterly insane our system is. I'm living off of my own business, which means that I don't have an employer to cover me under group insurance. But I really only make enough to live frugally and save a tiny amount each month--to me, an affordable health insurance plan would be between $50-$100 a month. Fat chance of that happening. And if it did, the deductible would be so high as to make the…

to me, an affordable health insurance plan would be between $50-$100 a month. Fat chance of that happening. And if it did, the deductible would be so high as to make the plan worthless for anything short of a car-crash-emergency-type-situation. Actually, that's exactly the policy you want as a healthy 26 year old: $5,000 deductible catastrophic coverage, and nothing more. It'll cost you $86 per month from Blue Shield…

I guess you may be much healthier than the people I know, but I don't think I know very many people who go three years without a visit to the doctor. We all get infections that are considered minor and routine due to our medical care, but if we can't get that medical care they can be life-threatening, like strep throat or other common winter ailments. We all sometimes have accidents and trip and need to go to the hospital. There are lots of other things. Counting on visiting only once every three years is a bit dangerous imo.

Re: Money Won’t Buy You Health Insurance

#370

Post by jseifer »

cookiecaper wrote: post #359
jseifer wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

United denies everything they possibly can and they make "mistakes" that take so long to find you get past their dispute time. Do not go through United trying to get them to pay this. Prepare for a day spent on the phone with the hospital until you find the person in the billing or services department who can really get to the bottom of it. They will figure out for you which technicality the insurance company is tryi…

Again, health insurance does this because insurance is all about paying for something and not using it. Since everyone uses health insurance, insurers resort to schemes like this to keep their profits where they like them. Insurance is a completely horrible paradigm for medical billing.

This was really meant more as advice to the commenter I replied to, having been through it before and learned how to deal with that particular company.
Post reply on HN