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People kept working, became healthier while on basic income: report

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Re: People kept working, became healthier while on basic income: report

#41

Post by burkaman »

new_realist wrote: post #32
immawizard wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree on the housing point. With basic income, people who can’t afford housing in expensive areas would move to towns with cheap housing/land but less lucrative/efficient work. There’s no housing shortage in rural areas.

Why doesn’t that happen today?

Because moving itself is expensive, and you can't just move and automatically have a new job. With basic income, you can afford to move, and don't have to worry too much about the time you'll spend looking for a new job.

Re: People kept working, became healthier while on basic income: report

#42

Post by dx87 »

new_realist wrote: post #32
immawizard wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree on the housing point. With basic income, people who can’t afford housing in expensive areas would move to towns with cheap housing/land but less lucrative/efficient work. There’s no housing shortage in rural areas.

Why doesn’t that happen today?

Because there isn't much work if you live there. If you had UBI though, that wouldn't matter, so you could just live in a rural area for cheap.

Re: People kept working, became healthier while on basic income: report

#43

Post by jasonlotito »

seszett wrote: post #29
rogerkirkness wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nowhere has universal healthcare. The basic healthcare is bad, so you can pay more to get better access, or go to the US for actual good care.

It seems Americans often believe that, but virtually nobody in Western Europe would even think of going to the US for healthcare. I would assume the same for Canadians. I have no idea if that's actually true, but the widespread opinion is that the ~free (it depends a lot between countries, it's usually simply affordable, rather than free) healthcare here is much better than what a normal person can afford in the US.

> It seems Americans often believe that, but virtually nobody in Western Europe would even think of going to the US for healthcare. I would assume the same for Canadians.

This is not true. It's just ignored because people would rather believe that universal healthcare is infallible. We moved from Canada to the US precisely because of healthcare for our children. In Canada, care was non-existant and the private services were expensive. In the US, it was the complete opposite.

Re: People kept working, became healthier while on basic income: report

#44

Post by laughingman2 »

throwaway13337 wrote: post #5

The issue I see with basic income is that most money is spent on housing and health care. These two things are supply constrained so it's more of an auction for who can afford them. With basic income, we may just raise the cost of those things. This problem wouldn't appear in a study that distributed to only some individuals. We need to solve the regulatory or otherwise organizational problems of these things to prov…

Wouldn't Land Value Tax solve the housing problem?

Re: People kept working, became healthier while on basic income: report

#46

Post by ceejayoz »

snarf21 wrote: post #37
stevenwoo wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We already have a pilot project - the Alaska Permanent Fund, it's been running since 1976.

This is very true. Honestly asking: Is it working? I haven't seen lots of data on the topic. I also know the climate and endless day/night issues weigh into this too. I'm curious if academia sees this as a success or not.

It's a pretty dismal failure if you compare it to the alternative approach, which is saving the oil revenue for a rainy day.

Norway has saved up $195,000 per citizen. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_Pension_Fund_of_Nor...

(Alaska's dividend is also a pittance that likely doesn't even start to offset the higher cost of living there. "Basic income", it's not.)

Re: People kept working, became healthier while on basic income: report

#47

Post by jimbokun »

> The project worked by recruiting low-income people and couples, offering them a fixed payment with no strings attached that worked out to approximately $17,000 for individuals and $24,000 for couples.

Why discriminate so heavily against couples?

It creates every incentive to lie about your relationship status. Or to avoid sharing a household altogether, creating greater economic inefficiencies and less built in social support of having a partner.

Re: People kept working, became healthier while on basic income: report

#48

Post by pingyong »

charlesu wrote: post #7
RegnisGnaw wrote: post #2

My issue, and I only have one, with these pilot projects for basic income is that its not realistic. The people in the project know that it will end at a fixed time, so their actions are different compared to what would happen in a BI/UBI system.

I've noticed that a lot of people who are born rich still choose to work.

Absolutely true, but they also tend to work in jobs where they have essentially full control over how much they work, when they work, etc.

And in some cases, that might still end up being much more lucrative than a "normal job". But I'm sure that in many cases, it doesn't - we just don't hear about it, because they're still rich, and nobody really knows what they're really doing anyway.

Re: People kept working, became healthier while on basic income: report

#49

Post by eru »

new_realist wrote: post #32
immawizard wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree on the housing point. With basic income, people who can’t afford housing in expensive areas would move to towns with cheap housing/land but less lucrative/efficient work. There’s no housing shortage in rural areas.

Why doesn’t that happen today?

It does. But perhaps at a lower rate?

Years ago, the Great Recession slowed that migration a lot.

Re: People kept working, became healthier while on basic income: report

#50

Post by sp332 »

new_realist wrote: post #32
immawizard wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree on the housing point. With basic income, people who can’t afford housing in expensive areas would move to towns with cheap housing/land but less lucrative/efficient work. There’s no housing shortage in rural areas.

Why doesn’t that happen today?

Because moving to places with lower cost of living, to speak extremely broadly of course, means less income compared to cost of living, meaning a lower standard of living. But with a guaranteed income, a lower cost of living would always mean a benefit to standard of living.
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