People kept working, became healthier while on basic income: report
1–10 of 809 posts
Re: People kept working, became healthier while on basic income: report
#2My issue, and I only have one, with these pilot projects for basic income is that its not realistic. The people in the project know that it will end at a fixed time, so their actions are different compared to what would happen in a BI/UBI system.
Re: People kept working, became healthier while on basic income: report
#3My issue, and I only have one, with these pilot projects for basic income is that its not realistic. The people in the project know that it will end at a fixed time, so their actions are different compared to what would happen in a BI/UBI system.
A fixed time before renewal is fairly common for legislation though; For instance, many of the tax cuts expire in 2025; Or the Bush capital gains cuts had to be renewed for 10 years.
One question about expiration dates; are study participants more likely to take caution them than general populace.
Re: People kept working, became healthier while on basic income: report
#4My issue, and I only have one, with these pilot projects for basic income is that its not realistic. The people in the project know that it will end at a fixed time, so their actions are different compared to what would happen in a BI/UBI system.
Yes, this is the glaring flaw in all of them as far as I've seen.
On the other hand, who knows how long UBI would stay in place in a democratic country? It might get voted out in the next election, too.
Re: People kept working, became healthier while on basic income: report
#5The issue I see with basic income is that most money is spent on housing and health care. These two things are supply constrained so it's more of an auction for who can afford them.
With basic income, we may just raise the cost of those things.
This problem wouldn't appear in a study that distributed to only some individuals.
We need to solve the regulatory or otherwise organizational problems of these things to provide real relief. Throwing money at the problem will just move money to a few hands.
Re: People kept working, became healthier while on basic income: report
#6These studies feel like "free energy machines" that totally work as long as they are plugged into a wall socket, that is: as long as the budget doesn't come from the system itself, you're not testing under anything close to real world conditions.
Otherwise, the results aren't surprising to me. I know very few people that wouldn't keep/be working if they had a UBI (and the ones that wouldn't aren't really working now), but I also know very few people that would keep their current job. UBI, if sustained and sustainable, should work similar to a roaring economy with full employment in that regard: if you want somebody to work in the sewers or garbage collection, you'll have to pay them well.
Re: People kept working, became healthier while on basic income: report
#7My issue, and I only have one, with these pilot projects for basic income is that its not realistic. The people in the project know that it will end at a fixed time, so their actions are different compared to what would happen in a BI/UBI system.
I've noticed that a lot of people who are born rich still choose to work.
Re: People kept working, became healthier while on basic income: report
#8My issue, and I only have one, with these pilot projects for basic income is that its not realistic. The people in the project know that it will end at a fixed time, so their actions are different compared to what would happen in a BI/UBI system.
Since governments set budgets on an annual basis, there’s no way any UBI program passed in the US would be funded and set in stone eternally.
Re: People kept working, became healthier while on basic income: report
#9I think it's important to study the details of different implementations before making any conclusions, positive or negative, about basic income. Yeah, one of the challenges with a test like this is knowing there's a finite end date.
Another aspect that is often ignored in these discussions is the question of whether recipients continue to be eligible for basic social safety net type of services. I've heard the libertarian approach to basic income is essentially a replacement for the services we consider "welfare", and that's what we're seeing out of the proposal in California where recipients receiving other assistance would be ineligible for this kind of income. Medicaid, for one, is a strike against eligibility.
I haven't looked into Ontario's test in detail, but I doubt the recipients gave up their single-payer healthcare to receive basic income. Also makes me think that BI is only so popular because we rarely dive into the details of what happens to existing social programs, a question that will surely turn the UI/BI discussion more divisive.
Re: People kept working, became healthier while on basic income: report
#10My issue, and I only have one, with these pilot projects for basic income is that its not realistic. The people in the project know that it will end at a fixed time, so their actions are different compared to what would happen in a BI/UBI system.
Yes, this is the glaring flaw in all of them as far as I've seen. On the other hand, who knows how long UBI would stay in place in a democratic country? It might get voted out in the next election, too.
People are already complaining about taxes too high and lazy welfare recipients. With UBI this would get even worse and I agree that most likely it would get voted out very quickly. If we can’t even get universal health care, robust social safety net or secure retirement going without political fights, forget UBI.