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Highest French court reclassifies Uber drivers as employees

courdecassation.fr

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Re: Highest French court reclassifies Uber drivers as employees

#511

Post by ElFitz »

8note wrote: post #434
ElFitz wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True. I'm a developer, and I only once got a company provided computer. And one (1) testing device (mobile dev).

do you bring your own servers too?

No, lucky me. Either I'm doing mobile and don't care wether it's an actual server behind those APIs or a hamster going crazy in it's wheel. Or I'm doing backend, in which case I only do serverless.

One colleague of mine did end up using his own server to run daily data processing and numbers crunching jobs for work though. It also served the internal analytics web UI. Apparently went on for years.

Re: Highest French court reclassifies Uber drivers as employees

#512

Post by boudin »

8note wrote: post #435
xg15 wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Refusing a take-it-or-leave-it offer is not negotiation. > Then the next day he sees that Burger king pays more Why would it be in the interest of Burger King to do that?

to have any employees show up to work

If the employee has other oportunities

Re: Highest French court reclassifies Uber drivers as employees

#513

Post by unishark »

hunter2_ wrote: post #501
unishark wrote: post #500

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In your shed example, a builder could contact you and negotiate the price (perhaps the $100 price you set is completely unrealistic). The argument presupposed that you refuse to negotiate. To say "but you can negotiate" sidesteps the whole thought experiment. You post the job at a fixed price. It's in writing on your posting, "fixed price". A builder accepts it. Or maybe they try to negotiate and you refuse and the…

In this shed scenario, if the first 10 builders to come across the ad think it's unrealistic and either ignore the ad or try to negotiate and get rejected, they walk away unscathed and quickly take other higher paying gigs. With Uber, I believe ignoring or rejecting customers is detrimental to your ability to continue finding higher paying customers. ... But not detrimental to your ability to find other ride-sharing…

This seems like a rather different direction of argument. The analogy had a known price before you decide. Allowing you to cancel without penalty wouldn't rate as negotiating anyway. Now you are talking about having to commit to work without knowing what you'll be paid (except in general terms presumably). There are other contract gigs where that happens, as well as full-time employment where that happens.

Re: Highest French court reclassifies Uber drivers as employees

#514

Post by dawnerd »

nicoburns wrote: post #309
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Target pays workers hourly wages. It would be quite something if they allowed you to work at Walmart during the hours you're being paid an hourly wage by Target.

Well one can't simultaneously drive a passenger obtained via Uber, and a passenger obtained via Lyft either.

I’ve had drivers accept a ride on the other app while still driving me. So I’m a way they kinda can.

Re: Highest French court reclassifies Uber drivers as employees

#515

Post by alkonaut »

fastball wrote: post #97
tyfon wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where I live the company has to set aside 12.5% of the salary paid for next years "vacation money". You can chose yourself when to withdraw this money in the following year. For a full time job you are required to take 25 days (or 5 weeks) off work outside of public holidays which is about 10% of the total working time so you usually have a bit more to spend in this period even if the vacation itself is unpaid :)

Why not just pay them more? Seems like a convoluted way to structure a pay increase.

That might create a pressure from employers where employees are expected to stay in their seats the whole year. The key is that employees are required to take the time off. That requirement means it's never possible to question it.

Re: Highest French court reclassifies Uber drivers as employees

#516

Post by masklinn »

toxik wrote: post #306
sk5t wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To cast your shed-building example in the Uber model: * You submit a desire to build a shed to a market-making company that controls much of the market * The market-maker sets a price you will be billed * The market-maker alerts nearby builders of a construction project - without the location - without the project cost - without the project plans * A builder (capriciously) clicks "accept project" and travels to your…

Please stop abusing code formatting for just about anything -Mobile users

Maybe that would not be an issue if HN had markup worth using. Like bulleted lists.

Re: Highest French court reclassifies Uber drivers as employees

#517

Post by nosianu »

jppope wrote: post #471
thenewnewguy wrote: post #377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but this is due to the fact that most jobs require your physical presence, Uber does not.

which is actually an argument that they are not employees.

No it is not and never was. Sales people - going back a very long time and include fully traveling ones - are not employees? How about traveling service technicians, not infrequently located all over the country, far from any company office? Home office - not uncommonly full time even, e.g. the company I work for does not even have an office but people employed all over this and other countries - are not employees? Please don't arbitrarily redefine "employment" to make your point.

Re: Highest French court reclassifies Uber drivers as employees

#518

Post by boudin »

viscanti wrote: post #132
boudin wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The main differnce is that the handymem can easily look for other customers elsewhere to find an alternative job. Uber drivers don't have this choice. They can't do a counter-offer neither. Technically, as you said, they can refuse. In practice, the power that Uber has on his drivers limits those choices a lot.

> The main difference is that the handymen can easily look for other customers elsewhere to find an alternative job. Uber drivers don't have this choice. I'm not sure what the situation is like in France, but most Uber drivers I've seen have the Lyft app open at the same time. It seems pretty trivial to download another app and use both at the same time (easier than almost any other freelancer finding more sources fo…

Part of the justification of the high court is that Uber disables accounts of drivers who refuses courses. Uber also hides the destination. There's not much room for a choice.

Re: Highest French court reclassifies Uber drivers as employees

#519

Post by lexs »

Consultant32452 wrote: post #496
6510 wrote: post #427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IF we can't send kids into coal mines the economy will collapse.

The point is this category of worker is not just made of a small fringe of poor victims. Many of these people are legitimate entrepreneurs who become millionaire small business owners. You're going to destroy an important path to wealth creation for the poor and middle class by forcing them to be mega corp drones. This is an awful idea. You will destroy their lives by pulling up the ladders blue collar workers are us…

You don't see a difference between an independent carpenter or tow truck company and an uber driver?

Re: Highest French court reclassifies Uber drivers as employees

#520

Post by unishark »

6510 wrote: post #427
Consultant32452 wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Home Depot sets prices for services like carpet install. They sub it out to various installers. AAA subcontracts out to local tow operators to provide nationwide coverage. Huge segments of the economy would fall apart of we made all of those kinds of people employees.

IF we can't send kids into coal mines the economy will collapse.

Fields like accounting and legal services operate this way too. A friend of mine made a lot of money as a contractor during major acquisitions. I'm pretty sure he was of legal age to work in his state.
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