Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Google Kubernetes Engine is introducing a cluster management fee on June 6

cloud.google.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

461–470 of 633 posts

Re: Google Kubernetes Engine is introducing a cluster management fee on June 6

#461

Post by geerlingguy »

blazespin wrote: post #390
geerlingguy wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> clusters should be treated like cattle, not pets Heh... how many teams actually treat their clusters like cattle, though? Every time I advocate automation around cluster management, people start complaining that "you don't have to do that anymore, we have Kubernetes!" Some people get it, yes, but even of that group, few have the political will/strength to make sure that automation is set up on the cluster level—esp…

For any real production system you have to use terraform and their ilk to manage clusters, as you need to be spinning up and down dev/qa/prod clusters. I don't know GCP though. In the past I've seen kube cluster archs which are very very fragile as they spin up. If that's the case with GCP I can see why you wouldn't do the above and rather hand hold their creation.

I would love if this happened in the real world, but for every well-architected automated cluster management setup I’ve seen using Terraform, Ansible, or even shell scripts and bubble gum, there are five that were hand-configured in the console and poorly (or not at all) documented, and might not be able to re-create without a substantial multi-day effort.

Re: Google Kubernetes Engine is introducing a cluster management fee on June 6

#462

Post by gumby »

rolleiflex wrote: post #58

This is awful - I don’t think GCP is fully aware of their position in the market as the second, inferior choice. I took a bet on the underdog by using GCP and they bit me back in return. Especially considering their ‘default’ kubernetes config automatically sets you up with three(!) control planes in replication, that’s, as far as I understand, $~300 added to our monthly bill, for nothing. Oh, and per their docs, thr…

> I don’t think GCP is fully aware of their position in the market as the second, inferior choice.

That's because they are aware of their position as a distant fourth place. They just (well last quarter) allocated an additional $2 billion to try and get a foothold in the enterprise, shook up the management team, and is on a spending spree as well.

Because google search is so shitty I couldn't find the $2B announcement (though it was on HN at the time) but here's a recent article on the general subject https://www.fool.com/investing/2020/02/27/google-buying-way-...

Re: Google Kubernetes Engine is introducing a cluster management fee on June 6

#463

Post by dahfizz »

olafure wrote: post #270
ones_and_zeros wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree the rollout is a little bumpy but I'm curious what workloads you are using k8s for where a $74/mo (or $300/mo) bill isn't a rounding error in your capex?

$3600/year is significant for a startup on a shoestring budget.

Then manage k8s yourself.

Or, better yet, don't use k8s. You don't need it, especially as a startup on a shoestring budget. You can migrate later if you decide you really need to, but just a plain LAMP gets you 99% of the way.

Re: Google Kubernetes Engine is introducing a cluster management fee on June 6

#464

Post by jrockway »

hitpointdrew wrote: post #451
lvh wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's kind of ridiculous internal load balancers can't get automatic certs. We've had to do a stupid dance just to get certs via the LE DNS challenge out of band, and then regularly install them on internal LBs.

Maybe I don't understand your problem, but can't you just use Traefik ( https://docs.traefik.io/user-guides/crd-acme/ ). It will get certs from letsencrypt for you.

TCP coming into your cluster means that you practically have to go through kube-proxy (because the load balancer and the Kubernetes scheduler aren't perfectly synchronized) and that the load-balancer can't balance per-request, only per-connection. If the load balancer terminates TLS, then it can just watch cluster endpoints and automatically route to the right node without any extra hop through kube-proxy, and it can also split large individual requests out of HTTP/2 and GRPC streams.

I'm guessing 99% of workloads won't notice either of these issues, but it is an actual issue.

Re: Google Kubernetes Engine is introducing a cluster management fee on June 6

#465

Post by owenmarshall »

asdfman123 wrote: post #201
croh wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For last 7 years I am running DO and never had any issue. I never understand why it is looked down. In fact I have faced so many issues with AWS (particulary their old hardward). In one case, our ec2 instance was rebooting frequently. AWS team didn't accept any issue from there end and after few weeks ask us to upgrade instace because of bad health. In my experience, AWS is a very expensive cloud with clunky UI and b…

I recently tried to spin up a VM for my own use in AWS, but I had to do a rate increase because I wanted a beefier machine. Easy peasy. My experience was comically bad. ====================== First email from AWS (several days after my request): ====================== Thank you for submitting your Limi Increase request. I'm contacting your to inform you that we've received your Workspaces Application Manager - Total…

It seems... strange to call Workspaces Application Manager “a VM you tried to spin up”

Workspaces are already a specialized product built on the AWS ecosystem; WAM is a niche management tool inside that niche.

Re: Google Kubernetes Engine is introducing a cluster management fee on June 6

#466

Post by manigandham »

rolleiflex wrote: post #79
tmpz22 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Too many people drank the cloud kool-aid. The move from day one was to create provider agnostic cloud architectures and repent the use of provider-specific services. That said they do make it damn hard. Our k8s cluster is as basic as it comes, no databases, simple deployments, but we do still have a dependency on Google Cloud Loadbalancer (which we hate). If pricing goes up too much from this we'll move, but the GCL…

We’re in the same situation — we’ve engineered for minimum provider-specific dependencies but GKE LoadBalancers were where they got us via arm twisting as well. There is no way to expose a cluster to the outside world in a production environment otherwise.

Load balancers are created by the pre-installed controller that each cloud provides to let external traffic reach the nodes. You don't have to use it.

It's no different than running your own load balancer like HAProxy pointed at the nodes which forward to a node-port service.

There's also MetalLB if you're running your own hardware: https://metallb.universe.tf/

Re: Google Kubernetes Engine is introducing a cluster management fee on June 6

#467

Post by jrockway »

mleonhard wrote: post #352
freedomben wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can confirm. Depending on your cluster size you will need at least 2 dedicated people on the "Kubernetes" team. You'll probably also end up rolling-your-own deployment tools because K8s API is a little overwhelming for most devs.

I started learning Kubernetes and was overwhelmed. The biggest problem was the missing docs. I filed a Github issue asking for missing Kubernetes YAML docs: https://github.com/kubernetes/website/issues/19139 Google will ignore it like all of the tickets I file. The fact is that Google is in the business of making money and they are focused on enterprise users. Enterprise users are not sensitive to integration difficu…

"kubectl explain deployment"

Re: Google Kubernetes Engine is introducing a cluster management fee on June 6

#468

Post by [deleted] »

briffle wrote: post #316
sneak wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Furthermore, anyone spending enough on compute to warrant k8s shouldn’t balk at all at $70/mo. I think the threshold for introducing the complexity and overhead of k8s isn’t probably until at least $5-10k/mo of spend (and probably 3-10x that in the normal case). Less than that and k8s is a whole lot of overkill.

We use google cloud projects to isolate customers and environments. (Some of our clients are old school and VERY scared of cloud, and multi-tenant). so for our pretty small company, we have >60 projects, each with a k8s cluster. that is a pretty good bump in costs come this summer. Historically, we have powered down all the compute in a project that isn't needed, but left the k8s cluster in place (with its compute no…

[deleted]

Re: Google Kubernetes Engine is introducing a cluster management fee on June 6

#469

Post by jrockway »

darau1 wrote: post #149
rolleiflex wrote: post #58

This is awful - I don’t think GCP is fully aware of their position in the market as the second, inferior choice. I took a bet on the underdog by using GCP and they bit me back in return. Especially considering their ‘default’ kubernetes config automatically sets you up with three(!) control planes in replication, that’s, as far as I understand, $~300 added to our monthly bill, for nothing. Oh, and per their docs, thr…

> their position in the market as the second, inferior choice Who's the superior choice? EKS?

EKS feels like a product where Jeff Bezos walked into a room and said "you're all fired if you don't have a Kubersomethings service up in the next two weeks". The team did it and haven't touched it since.

The amount of management they make you do is amazing. Need to upgrade the kernel on your nodes? Fill out a five page CloudFormation workflow, and if you copy-pasted anything wrong, your cluster will just randomly work strangely for no reason. This is what they consider "fully managed"! (There are also lots of neat bugs, like if you create a cluster in the web interface while logged in with SSO, all credentials necessary to access the cluster will disappear in an hour. By design, apparently. So even though they have a web interface, you have to create a role account and use the command-line.)

It's really a wondrous product and shows how complacent you can be when you're in first place.

Post reply on HN