Kudos for the French. If a driver works full time driving for Uber she should be compensated as a full time worker.
Highest French court reclassifies Uber drivers as employees
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Re: Highest French court reclassifies Uber drivers as employees
#152> The criteria for self-employment include the possibility of building up one's own clientele, the freedom to set one's own rates, and the freedom to set the terms and conditions for providing one's services. Immediately I'd seem to agree with this statement. I think of typical self-employment businesses; hairdressers, freelance developers, etc and this seems to apply. You can set your own rate and your own terms, ev…
The classification of uber drivers as employees mostly means they have to pay more tax and less money goes to drivers and uber. People will argue employees have more rights and this is good for them, but the primary benefit of someone being an employee is to the state and the benefit is financial. If too many people become self-employed, the state can't finance itself anymore. The line between 'employee' and 'self-em…
> The classification of uber drivers as employees mostly means they have to pay more tax and less money goes to drivers and uber.
You forgot to disclose the fact that they are getting many perks like properly funding their public pensions while working for Uber AND getting access to regular unemployment funds. The advantages absolutely out-weight the drawbacks in France. And they are guaranteed a minimum wage, legal contract framework which means that Uber cannot fire them on the spot and so on and so forth. The only loser here is Uber, not the driver, if Uber were to chose to continue doing business in France.
Re: Highest French court reclassifies Uber drivers as employees
#153Earlier quoted context omitted.
Say John make a platform right now and set the rule that there's no negotiations permitted. Builders accepting the proposal must accept at the listed price. Obviously there remains a variation in the quality of the different proposals (some builders may be more polite, or use better wood). Obviously, the key difference here is that I would be able to choose what builder I want, but the customer on Uber doesn't get to…
> Now, would you say that builder is employed by this website? Probably yes. The terms are being set by the platform. > It's a limitation of the platform (limitations made to improve customer experience - imagine if you had to negotiate for every taxi ride, you don't do this for local companies). I've never used Uber. Does the customer get to choose the driver? On this hypothetical platform, does the customer get to…
With Uber (or Lyft), neither party can select the other. The app dispatches drivers as rides are requested.
This is in general...
A driver can decline rides before accepting (because destination is out of their desired area or time exceeds 45 minutes), but that can impact driver rating (or at least, it used to do so). Drivers can also refuse drunk passengers, unaccompanied minors, and a few other things like that.
I'm not aware of any way for a passenger to refuse a driver, short of cancelling the ride completely (which has a fee associated if done close to actual pick-up). And, if you make another ride request, you might get the same driver again.
Re: Highest French court reclassifies Uber drivers as employees
#154So can Uber force French drivers to work certain hours? As an American, I have poor understanding of what employment entails in the EU. If the Uber drivers are just hourly employees, what changes for them? In the USA, you only see real employment benefits if you are a salaried employee. An hourly worker gets paid their wage and that's it (no sick days, retirement, etc).
Even in the US, if you work for more than a certain number of hours you have right to health insurance and other benefits defined by each state.
Re: Highest French court reclassifies Uber drivers as employees
#155Earlier quoted context omitted.
Doesn't all of this also apply to taxis? Taxis pick up at taxi ranks or off the street. Taxis have regulations set by an organisation. Taxis (in most places) have rules that say they must take the most efficient route. In most places, taxis aren't allowed to refuse a customer based on destination. Does that mean that a taxi driver is an employee? Of course not.
>Does that mean that a taxi driver is an employee? In Europe? (or France in this particular case) yes absolutely. I've never been to a European country where taxi drivers are not employees of regular taxi companies receiving salaries.
In Paris, ~60% own their medallion, ~30% are independent and rent it from a taxi company, the rest are employees.
Re: Highest French court reclassifies Uber drivers as employees
#156Earlier quoted context omitted.
>Taxis pick up at taxi ranks or off the street. 'Radio' calls and calls they've privately arranged with customers as well. >Taxis have regulations set by an organisation. That would be local by-law in most cases. >Taxis (in most places) have rules that say they must take the most efficient route. You can't intentionally ripoff customers but the fastest route and the cheapest are often different. You can take whatever…
You absolutely can refuse a customer as long as it's not descriminatory, like most other businesses. Depends on your jurisdiction. For example, taxi drivers in Chicago were notorious for refusing to take people on trips that were too short, or too far out of the CBD. Sometimes they'd even refuse to take people from downtown to the airport because if traffic is bad, or there was a long wait in the staging area at the…
That's a fair point, they forbid you refusing short trips most places I'm familiar with. I wasn't really thinking about that in this case, mostly people asking you to take them sketchy places or belligerent customers which are the only reasons I consider it. An important distinction is it's local law that forbids that, not a company policy like with Uber.
Just a few days ago I had some drunk customers screaming at me in my cab and shaking my seat under the impression I was legally required to drive them. They earned a very long walk home to think about it.
Re: Highest French court reclassifies Uber drivers as employees
#157"You're all fired."
Re: Highest French court reclassifies Uber drivers as employees
#158So if a driver works on both Uber and Lyft or whatever, the driver is an employee of all those companies?
Yes, many people work more than one job.
Re: Highest French court reclassifies Uber drivers as employees
#159> The criteria for self-employment include the possibility of building up one's own clientele, the freedom to set one's own rates, and the freedom to set the terms and conditions for providing one's services. Immediately I'd seem to agree with this statement. I think of typical self-employment businesses; hairdressers, freelance developers, etc and this seems to apply. You can set your own rate and your own terms, ev…
> Here's a scenario: I publish an ad on a handyman site asking for a new shed built for £100.
But that's not a good analogy to Uber either. With Uber, neither the customer nor the driver sets the price, Uber does.
Re: Highest French court reclassifies Uber drivers as employees
#160Earlier quoted context omitted.
why does the government need to bend backwards to allow underpaid jobs ?
If people voluntarily choose those jobs then doesn't that mean those jobs are better than the alternatives they have? It also provides a pretty nice service.
That people are able to do what's best for them is a faulty assumption and the key argument for regulation.