Does anyone know if this is already the case Kapten, which seemed to be the main ride hailing service in Paris when we just went.
Highest French court reclassifies Uber drivers as employees
11–20 of 602 posts
Re: Highest French court reclassifies Uber drivers as employees
#12Earlier quoted context omitted.
I was under the impression that the only way the Uber/Lyft business model is even remotely viable (without continuous VC subsidy) is classifying drivers as contractors, meaning they don't have to pay them minimum wage or benefits, which lets them undercut taxis.
1) Uber is a public company now, it has not been VC funded for a long time 2) Regular taxi companies generally also treat drivers as contractors
> Uber is a public company now, it has not been VC funded for a long time
I don’t think those two things are exclusive are they?
Re: Highest French court reclassifies Uber drivers as employees
#13Seems a fair judgement since all the restriction make the drivers effectively work as employees:
> Drivers who use the Uber application do not build up their own clientele, do not freely set their rates, and do not determine the terms and conditions of providing their transportation service. The company imposes the itinerary and the driver’s fare is adjusted if this itinerary is not followed. The destination is unknown to the driver, thereby revealing that the driver cannot freely choose the route that suits him/her...
Re: Highest French court reclassifies Uber drivers as employees
#14So can Uber force French drivers to work certain hours?
As an American, I have poor understanding of what employment entails in the EU. If the Uber drivers are just hourly employees, what changes for them?
In the USA, you only see real employment benefits if you are a salaried employee. An hourly worker gets paid their wage and that's it (no sick days, retirement, etc).
Re: Highest French court reclassifies Uber drivers as employees
#15Earlier quoted context omitted.
I was under the impression that the only way the Uber/Lyft business model is even remotely viable (without continuous VC subsidy) is classifying drivers as contractors, meaning they don't have to pay them minimum wage or benefits, which lets them undercut taxis.
1) Uber is a public company now, it has not been VC funded for a long time 2) Regular taxi companies generally also treat drivers as contractors
And it has been losing tons of money for even longer. Without VCs to bail them out several times a year, how will they justify operating at a huge loss in France without a viable path to profitability?
Re: Highest French court reclassifies Uber drivers as employees
#16So can Uber force French drivers to work certain hours? As an American, I have poor understanding of what employment entails in the EU. If the Uber drivers are just hourly employees, what changes for them? In the USA, you only see real employment benefits if you are a salaried employee. An hourly worker gets paid their wage and that's it (no sick days, retirement, etc).
I don't know if that's true. Our hourlies get benefits like health insurance, vacation, etc. Maybe not as good as salaried but it's not as clear cut as "hourly pay only."
Re: Highest French court reclassifies Uber drivers as employees
#17Earlier quoted context omitted.
How did you jump to this conclusion?
Is there such a thing as an employee with random hours? Isn't the whole point of an employee that there is an expectation of regular work?
Not for a lot of minimum wage and service industry jobs. Millions of adults in the western economic world work these kinds of jobs, and shifts can be moved around, shortened, lengthened, or disappeared altogether (via being given to someone else, or because business is expected to be slower). This isn't at all OK, but it's the reality for lots of people.
Re: Highest French court reclassifies Uber drivers as employees
#18Earlier quoted context omitted.
How did you jump to this conclusion?
Is there such a thing as an employee with random hours? Isn't the whole point of an employee that there is an expectation of regular work?
I know plenty of people who are on-call or have jobs with random hours (think bartenders who need random breaks for auditions)
Re: Highest French court reclassifies Uber drivers as employees
#19Earlier quoted context omitted.
I was under the impression that the only way the Uber/Lyft business model is even remotely viable (without continuous VC subsidy) is classifying drivers as contractors, meaning they don't have to pay them minimum wage or benefits, which lets them undercut taxis.
1) Uber is a public company now, it has not been VC funded for a long time 2) Regular taxi companies generally also treat drivers as contractors
> 1) Uber is a public company now, it has not been VC funded for a long time
They also typically lose around $1 billion per quarter. Unless they figure out how to be profitable, they will eventually run out of money. So really, they are still burning cash on the roughly $20 billion of VC capital they raised, plus the money they raised during IPO.
https://www.theverge.com/2019/8/8/20793793/uber-5-billion-qu...
Re: Highest French court reclassifies Uber drivers as employees
#20Earlier quoted context omitted.
How did you jump to this conclusion?
Is there such a thing as an employee with random hours? Isn't the whole point of an employee that there is an expectation of regular work?
Those are called zero hour contracts. It seems like they exist in France also:
https://theculturetrip.com/europe/france/articles/what-to-kn...