$50M worth of Tesla equipment sits unused in a Wheatfield warehouse • Hacker News Board

Re: $50M worth of Tesla equipment sits unused in a Wheatfield warehouse

#41

Post by qubex » Wed, Mar 04, 2020, 4:32 PM UTC

tomatotomato37 wrote: post #21

ErikAugust wrote: post #9

Wait until they hear about the hundreds of billions of dollars worth of all sorts of stuff sitting idle that has been purchased by the DoD and USG paid for by tax money.

Reminds me how the US continually produces tanks despite the armies recommendations, to the point where we have enough tanks to essentially fight WW3 with purely tanks and still have some left over, just so some congressmen can keep jobs in their constituency. At least that was the situation in the 2000s, no idea if that wackiness is still continuing

The production of armaments is a bit of an economic anomaly, to be honest. All businesses, including arms manufacturers, require a constant flow of business in order to cover their fixed costs and remunerate their investors (debt holders and shareholders). If governments only order weapons when they need them to fight a war, then the arms manufacturers would shut form at the end of a conflict and would take ages to “gear up” again when a new conflict arises, stymying response and lessening the deterrence implicit in having a standing army. Consequentially, it actually makes sense (from a strategic point of view) to keep weapons manufacturers “ticking over” with a constant flow of orders even if that just results in growing stockpiles. One of the reasons that profits are di high for weapons manufacturers is that according to the Capital Asset Pricing Model (CAPM) the rush of a government suddenly cutting off orders during peacetime and rendering the company unprofitable and probably bankrupt needs to be offset by high dividends in the here-and-now and with low historic volatility.

Now, I’m not saying I support this, far from it, but that’s (one of) the rationale(s).

Re: $50M worth of Tesla equipment sits unused in a Wheatfield warehouse

#42

Post by colejohnson66 » Wed, Mar 04, 2020, 4:33 PM UTC

new_realist wrote: post #31

ErikAugust wrote: post #9

Wait until they hear about the hundreds of billions of dollars worth of all sorts of stuff sitting idle that has been purchased by the DoD and USG paid for by tax money.

Whataboutism is a lazy response.

While it is whataboutism, it’s saying (in less words) that instead of painting Tesla in a negative light for $50M, the candle should be shining on the government for the billions wasted in the military every year.

I read it as a dismissal of the article because it seems like it was written just for clicks. An article about the government’s waste doesn’t get as many clicks.

Re: $50M worth of Tesla equipment sits unused in a Wheatfield warehouse

#43

Post by JackFr » Wed, Mar 04, 2020, 4:34 PM UTC

mr_overalls wrote: post #30

ErikAugust wrote: post #9

Wait until they hear about the hundreds of billions of dollars worth of all sorts of stuff sitting idle that has been purchased by the DoD and USG paid for by tax money.

Prime example: the NRO donated two unused spy satellites to NASA, each more powerful than the Hubble Telescope. https://www.space.com/16000-spy-satellites-space-telescopes-...

I read an interview with an NRO scientist, who described his group as following carefully the progress of the Hubble team who were independently solving many of the same problems their teams had solved earlier. From a national security perspective, they had to sit on their hands and not offer any help, but from an engineering perspective, they valued having another team do it to see if they would validate their design by coming up with similar solutions.

Re: $50M worth of Tesla equipment sits unused in a Wheatfield warehouse

#44

Post by lobotryas » Wed, Mar 04, 2020, 4:34 PM UTC

searine wrote: post #5

This seems like kind of a 'gotcha' article. "One out of every $6 spent on machinery for the Tesla factory is now unused." I'd imagine most healthy large companies operate this way. Utilizing the majority of their equipment and having some reserve capacity in parts and equipment stored.

Absolutely is a hot piece. Look how they went out of their way to mention that Musk is a billionaire (is that even true?). Hating on billionaires - so hot right now.

Re: $50M worth of Tesla equipment sits unused in a Wheatfield warehouse

#45

Post by pengaru » Wed, Mar 04, 2020, 4:35 PM UTC

jdc wrote: post #39

SEJeff wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, they've just massively upgraded the M1s to where they're nothing like the original tanks at all: https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/armys-new-tank-here-c... It isn't as though they've been building the same old thing since the 2000s, they've been incrementally and steadily improving them as technology and materials science improves.

I think the point is tanks in general have little use in the vast majority of modern American battles.

Is that really true when modern American battles seem to always evolve into endless occupations?

Re: $50M worth of Tesla equipment sits unused in a Wheatfield warehouse

#46

Post by hellisothers » Wed, Mar 04, 2020, 4:37 PM UTC

tomatotomato37 wrote: post #21

ErikAugust wrote: post #9

Wait until they hear about the hundreds of billions of dollars worth of all sorts of stuff sitting idle that has been purchased by the DoD and USG paid for by tax money.

Reminds me how the US continually produces tanks despite the armies recommendations, to the point where we have enough tanks to essentially fight WW3 with purely tanks and still have some left over, just so some congressmen can keep jobs in their constituency. At least that was the situation in the 2000s, no idea if that wackiness is still continuing

Too bad we can’t field them all at once without depleting the entire national reserve of gasoline in 30 minutes :)

Re: $50M worth of Tesla equipment sits unused in a Wheatfield warehouse

#47

Post by azinman2 » Wed, Mar 04, 2020, 4:37 PM UTC

bluedino wrote: post #11

ErikAugust wrote: post #9

Wait until they hear about the hundreds of billions of dollars worth of all sorts of stuff sitting idle that has been purchased by the DoD and USG paid for by tax money.

We've bought "surplus" Dell and HP servers from different government entities that were two generations old, basically brand new in the box. I wonder what % of purchases go unused for whatever reasons.

Where from?

Re: $50M worth of Tesla equipment sits unused in a Wheatfield warehouse

#48

Post by prostheticvamp » Wed, Mar 04, 2020, 4:39 PM UTC

2000YearOldMan wrote: post #29

bochoh wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Via auction site?

https://www.govliquidation.com/ Looks like the site moved to https://www.go-dove.com/

Have you used that site in the past? I see a lot of listings saying something like “24 ea” to describe a lot of 24, but can’t find what the ea means. I’d think it might mean “bid is per item,” but that makes no sense (I’m seeing bids at multiples of what the individual items are worth).

Re: $50M worth of Tesla equipment sits unused in a Wheatfield warehouse

#49

Post by walrus01 » Wed, Mar 04, 2020, 4:43 PM UTC

pbreit wrote: post #37

As usual, Tesla's involvement in the original deal is reported incorrectly. Tesla had no involvement in the original deal. Nor did Solar City. In fact, Silevo did the deal, was then acquired by Solar City which was then acquired by Tesla.

If you follow the PV panel manufacturing industry this is actually not super uncommon, there's a number of companies that have gone belly up in the past ten years.

In some cases due to business models that relied on weird economic incentives for the panel manufacturing location, where 156mm cells purchased on the commodity market from a third party would be encapsulated and built up into 60 or 72-cell panels.

Google "solar panel manufacturer bankrupt" for some noteworthy examples.

Margins on PV panel manufacturing are REALLY thin.

Re: $50M worth of Tesla equipment sits unused in a Wheatfield warehouse

#50

Post by SEJeff » Wed, Mar 04, 2020, 4:44 PM UTC

jdc wrote: post #39

SEJeff wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, they've just massively upgraded the M1s to where they're nothing like the original tanks at all: https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/armys-new-tank-here-c... It isn't as though they've been building the same old thing since the 2000s, they've been incrementally and steadily improving them as technology and materials science improves.

I think the point is tanks in general have little use in the vast majority of modern American battles.

I’d say this is false, even as I myself am a US Army veteran who spent a year in Iraq 2003-2004. Tanks are still useful, but aren’t as useful against non-conventional forces.

The pentagon has spent the past 4-5 years retooling for what they call “near peer” threats which is to say China in the Pacific and Russia in Europe. Tanks, and really good ones in specific, would be required to push back a Russian incursion into our allies.