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Bug-a-Salt (2013)

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Re: Bug-a-Salt (2013)

#61

Post by Brain_Thief »

some_random wrote: post #48
ZoomZoomZoom wrote: post #30

With age I came to conclusion that anything making killing of any kind even remotely fun is utterly wrong. It might be necessary with dangerous insects, but it should not be fun or recreational.

This is a really interesting position, I'm interested in how you arrived at it. Do you think that if killing something is fun it will result in more things being killed, or is your issue more fundamentally with the idea of killing being fun?

Not OP, but I share his / her perspective. My reasoning is that the act of killing is a serious and irreversible decision that should not in any way be trivialized. Furthermore, a full evaluation of the consequences of killing should not be deflected, distorted, or colored by something like amusement. Since killing is a necessary part of life (others mentioned vaccines, food production, and gardening below) it seems important to foster a sober and cautious attitude toward the act so as to prevent unnecessary loss of life; the "gamification" of death, even in trivial cases such as with the salt gun, does not appear to promote a sober attitude toward killing.

Essentially, my stance is that there is a difference between accepting an action as necessary and engaging with it as needed and making said action fun / associating it with enjoyment. I don't count video games as part of the issue for the moment since, at least currently, it does not seem like the characters and units that populate video games are in any sense alive. This may change, however, and if it does then I expect radical consequences will unfold.

Re: Bug-a-Salt (2013)

#62

Post by jmiskovic »

some_random wrote: post #48
ZoomZoomZoom wrote: post #30

With age I came to conclusion that anything making killing of any kind even remotely fun is utterly wrong. It might be necessary with dangerous insects, but it should not be fun or recreational.

This is a really interesting position, I'm interested in how you arrived at it. Do you think that if killing something is fun it will result in more things being killed, or is your issue more fundamentally with the idea of killing being fun?

My own answer is through rational empathy. You might not think much of small annoying insect, but it is still orders of magnitude more complex than anything humanity has ever built. Destroying such marvelous system just for target practice feels like being a dick, and I refrain from it.

It is a hard ethical dilemma and any line you draw will be arbitrary. Some people hunt rhinos, some catch fish or shoot birds as past-time, while others get sense of satisfaction from gunning down insects. I still condone pest control, but I draw the line at reasons like "for fun", or "because I'm bored", or "to feel more powerful". The intention/reason is important, because it affects the future. If you do it for fun, you have no reason to ever stop or to consider alternatives once they are made possible.

To answer another post, I think killing in video games is completely OK and something I often enjoy doing.

I'm also enjoying the tone you've set for discussion and I'd like to hear your personal views.

Re: Bug-a-Salt (2013)

#63

Post by sunbear-lover »

ses1984 wrote: post #42
ZoomZoomZoom wrote: post #30

With age I came to conclusion that anything making killing of any kind even remotely fun is utterly wrong. It might be necessary with dangerous insects, but it should not be fun or recreational.

I can see how this would be more effective in some areas of my home than a fly swatter, where you can't wind up easily. Fly swatter work because their arc surprises flies (in my experience). If you find it fun to use or repugnant that's a personal thing. Flies are yucky pests that I don't want to have around.

I think also the flyswatter works because it does not displace air the same way that your hand does when you're trying to smack a fly with it. Flies can tell when something is headed their way because they feel the air move.

Re: Bug-a-Salt (2013)

#66

Post by loco5niner »

smoyer wrote: post #52
throwaway1239Mx wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why in the holy hell is this getting downvoted[0]? Advice on what kind of ammunition to use during the endless war on bugs that we humans have perpetrated for our own comfort[1] is without a doubt invaluable information. [0] This is not snark. [1] Snark aside, I for real do not want roaches etc. in my house, and appreciate non-poisonous methods of dealing... while at the same time struggling with the fact that the in…

Why is the post about the morality of killing for fun getting up-voted? This community, at this instance in time seems to be against it. A funny story from when I was younger ... there was a candidate running for County Commissioner who lived in my neighborhood and had a local auto-parts store. County Commissioners are paper pusher yet for some reason, as if his position mattered, someone asked whether he was for or…

This is about killing flies. No qualms here.

Re: Bug-a-Salt (2013)

#67

Post by shmulkey18 »

Has anyone modified these things to give them a little more power? I have a "gen 1" Bug-a-Salt and it doesn't have enough grunt to kill a fly. I suspect that a stronger spring would do the trick, but haven't seen any tear-downs or mods online.

I have seen "bug killer" add-ons for air-powered pellet guns, but they seem kind of iffy for indoor use.

[edit: grammar and spelling]

Re: Bug-a-Salt (2013)

#68

Post by loco5niner »

jmiskovic wrote: post #62
some_random wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a really interesting position, I'm interested in how you arrived at it. Do you think that if killing something is fun it will result in more things being killed, or is your issue more fundamentally with the idea of killing being fun?

My own answer is through rational empathy. You might not think much of small annoying insect, but it is still orders of magnitude more complex than anything humanity has ever built. Destroying such marvelous system just for target practice feels like being a dick, and I refrain from it. It is a hard ethical dilemma and any line you draw will be arbitrary. Some people hunt rhinos, some catch fish or shoot birds as pas…

I kill flies and mosquitoes in my house because they spread disease.

Re: Bug-a-Salt (2013)

#69

Post by KineticLensman »

TruthSHIFT wrote: post #58
ZoomZoomZoom wrote: post #30

With age I came to conclusion that anything making killing of any kind even remotely fun is utterly wrong. It might be necessary with dangerous insects, but it should not be fun or recreational.

Unlike a vast majority of other animals, studies seem to indicate that insects are not capable of feeling pain and suffering. Killing insects is effectively just killing robots.

> studies seem to indicate that insects are not capable of feeling pain and suffering

All of the articles (e.g. [0]) I found in a quick search in response to this citation-free assertion suggested that the answer is more nuanced that that. I'd also observe that higher primates (e.g. chimps) that have pain mechanisms that are biologically very similar to ours can have a very different response to us. If you watch film of social interactions of chimps, e.g. [1], it's a fairly routine occurrence for an individual to apparently ignore injuries that would have a human screaming (e.g. a finger partially severed in a fight with a rival), especially if it would affect their hierarchical status to run away. So I wouldn't read too much into observed behaviour as an indicator of what is actually going on, at least for primates.

[0] https://reducing-suffering.org/do-bugs-feel-pain/

[1] https://monkeyworld.org/monkey-life/

Re: Bug-a-Salt (2013)

#70

Post by [deleted] »

derefr wrote: post #49

> It is possible to shoot flies out of the air. There is nothing else like it. I mean, personally, I just spray them with Windex. (Which doesn’t so much kill them as stop them from being able to fly temporarily, at which point you can find them on the ground trying to slowly walk away, and do as you will with them.) And it has the convenient property that you already probably have a sprayer-bottle of it in your house…

[deleted]
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