Spot the Drowning Child (2015) • Hacker News Board

Re: Spot the Drowning Child (2015)

#111

Post by fullstop » Wed, Mar 04, 2020, 2:02 PM UTC

minimonk wrote: post #36

One of the important lessons I learnt from a lifeguard is that movies depict a very inaccurate representation of drowning. The movies would have you believe that drowning is a violent and noisy event when in reality it is an inconspicuous and silent event. The victim cannot shout or call for help when they are struggling to keep their nose above the water level. Another important lesson I learnt that sometimes when s…

> One of the important lessons I learnt from a lifeguard is that movies depict a very inaccurate representation of drowning. The movies would have you believe that drowning is a violent and noisy event when in reality it is an inconspicuous and silent event. The victim cannot shout or call for help when they are struggling to keep their nose above the water level.

My daughter, when she was about 2, fell over in about 2 feet of water in a lake and it was completely and utterly silent. One moment she was there and the next she was under and reaching up at me, bubbles coming out of her mouth. If I had been even remotely distracted I never would have known that she had gone under.

Re: Spot the Drowning Child (2015)

#112

Post by angstrom » Wed, Mar 04, 2020, 2:04 PM UTC

_ph_ wrote: post #89

I am impressed by these videos any time the pop up on hacker news. But one thing struck me: that they are using those large floatation rings. A lot of the incidents seem to be where a child looses contact to the ring and then cannot swim on itself. I am wondering, why they are allowed at all. In my personal experience, I have rarely seen such rings in public pools and that basically means, you are not getting far int…

I could spot the person fairly easily, but that's either luck or because I can't swim, so I was looking for the person doing what I would be doing.

Re: Spot the Drowning Child (2015)

#113

Post by keanzu » Wed, Mar 04, 2020, 2:04 PM UTC

_ph_ wrote: post #82

JshWright wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The guards actually have a lot more context. They have been watching the people in the pool and have mentally sorted them by how much attention they need. They have also been staring at the same pool for hours and their brain is ignoring all the visual noise that is distracting you. They also have the benefit of stereo vision and sound.

The sound of the videos is awful and little use, but I would guess, in reality, hearing can help too. And humans are exceptionally able to focus their attention on a single sound source. In general, I would assume, like with driving, the job of the lifguard is a bit automatic, where the mind on its own filters out the ones, which might need stronger attention.

On at least one example I heard constant frequency splashing - it was the drowning person, they were going under and coming up rhythmically so the sound was helpful.

Re: Spot the Drowning Child (2015)

#114

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Mar 04, 2020, 2:05 PM UTC

econcon wrote: post #109

minimonk wrote: post #36

One of the important lessons I learnt from a lifeguard is that movies depict a very inaccurate representation of drowning. The movies would have you believe that drowning is a violent and noisy event when in reality it is an inconspicuous and silent event. The victim cannot shout or call for help when they are struggling to keep their nose above the water level. Another important lesson I learnt that sometimes when s…

I never learned to swim. At age 14 I felt like someone pushed me into the river at noon time, sun was very bright and there was no one there but me catching fishes alone, I fell right into the river. I didn't drown I figured out how to swim out of instinct - I wonder how common it is. This is one of the least things shown in movies that some people can end up swimming on their own without having previously learnt it.

[deleted]

Re: Spot the Drowning Child (2015)

#115

Post by brndr » Wed, Mar 04, 2020, 2:06 PM UTC

rndgermandude wrote: post #67

undineine wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

European pools generally ask under children under 14 or so who go swimming unattended whether they have swimming diplomas. If you complete your swimming diplomas, you get stickers for your swim shorts to show you have completed them. Generally certain rides in water parks, like fast slides or streams will require you to have higher levels of swimming training to go on if you're under 14.

I remember I was asked a bunch of times if I had my "free swimmer" (Freischwimmer, Bronze)[1] by lifeguards when I was pre-teen in Germany, indeed. Tho, that wasn't something they did every time, more like spot checks. My parents were wise enough to enroll me in a course so I got my "early swimmer" (seahorse, Seepferdchen) training by age 6; that doesn't make you into a good swimmer yet, but at least you know the bas…

Swimming education in Germany is highly standardized. The "Bundesverband zur Förderung der Schwimmausbildung" (federal association in furtherance of swimming education) consists of different lifesaving and sports organizations and has recently published new examination regulations which highered the standards for swimming badges.

All swimmming instructors in those organizations will tell you that you should permanently keep an eye on your kids and don't let them go to the pool alone until they complete the bronze badge which requires you to swim for fifteen minutes, dive down to two meters and jump into the water. Only after you complete this test you are considered a "safe swimmer".

Re: Spot the Drowning Child (2015)

#116

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Mar 04, 2020, 2:07 PM UTC

[deleted]

Re: Spot the Drowning Child (2015)

#117

Post by keanzu » Wed, Mar 04, 2020, 2:08 PM UTC

zentiggr wrote: post #88

Jaruzel wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But who would you sue if the computer vision didn't spot your child drowning?

I think the more likely scenario is who wouldn't you sue? Even the camera manufacturer wouldn't be immune from defending themselves. Welcome to America.

You wouldn't sue yourself as the parent/guardian of the child - you look around for someone, anyone to blame.

When I took a 5yo to a pool which had multiple lifeguards I put her in a lifejacket and stayed within arm's reach of her. Playing in a pool is great fun but it is very high stakes. No way I am going to leave a child in such a dangerous situation and hope it works out. Making sure your child survives a trip to a pool is your responsibility.

Re: Spot the Drowning Child (2015)

#118

Post by bane » Wed, Mar 04, 2020, 2:12 PM UTC

There's a youtube channel of these videos: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCnERyC7dwJwTvEyzYz6uxHw

For those not deeply familiar with U.S. structural issues regarding race, a random viewing of the video will show the unfortunately, the victim/rescued person is likely to be African-American. The reasons for this are complex and sad.

Anecdotally, as a child, my family wasn't well off (and at least once homeless), and for a while lived in a lower class urban neighborhood that just happened to have a nice public pool. However, I know that my swimming education started as a toddler with my mother taking me to the local recreation center for early swim classes. Later when I was maybe 6 or 7 my older brother, a champion high school swimmer, further reinforced this until I was very comfortable in the water and had no problems even at the bottom of the deepest parts of the pool. All through my early, middle and high school years I had countless opportunities to swim, and to learn new skills around water. When I was 17 I could easily complete a mile-long endurance swim, or pull a bucket of rocks 20 feet up off the bottom of a pitch black lake.

My African-American friends, starting way back at that housing complex, had no such similar experience. I remember long summer days with my friends teaching our black friends to swim so we could have more fun in the pool as a group. As children, it wasn't entirely unusual that one of us kids couldn't swim, as maybe their parents just hadn't gotten around to teaching them, so we took it upon ourselves -- never really noticing the pattern that only our black friends hadn't learned to swim yet. What we didn't understand is that most of their parents would never teach them, as many of them in fact couldn't swim either or discouraged it for various reasons -- creating a generational problem.

Now, older, I've come to see and understand the sadness of the situation and hope it continues to be addressed in a more systematic way.

Please, if you can't swim, learn to. Teach your children or have your children taught. Water sports are tons of fun, but your safety is mostly on your ability to swim.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjC2Ucpr__E

https://www.ymca.net/summer-buzz/highest-risk-for-drowning

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-11172054

Re: Spot the Drowning Child (2015)

#119

Post by keanzu » Wed, Mar 04, 2020, 2:13 PM UTC

mosselman wrote: post #41

Jesus, looking at this and reading a few of the comments has me well scared of the dangers of water again. Good reminder, but always chilling.

A healthy respect for pools is an excellent idea. There are few activities a child might reasonably engage in where it could go so wrong it might end up in their death. Swimming is one.

Re: Spot the Drowning Child (2015)

#120

Post by hoorayimhelping » Wed, Mar 04, 2020, 2:14 PM UTC

Hamuko wrote: post #27

chrismeller wrote: post #5

All in all after watching several of their videos I feel like I do a good job of recognizing the drowning person, but I’m amazed at how quickly the lifeguards spot it and dive into action. Even knowing that in this short clip there is absolutely someone drowning I still have doubt, but the lifeguard who doesn’t have that context is already half way to the person by the time I’m sure.

How long of a shift do lifeguards even have? Because I wouldn't feel confident in being able to observe a bunch of people in a pool for hours for what are quite subtle clues.

I was a lifeguard at Disney World (Disney lifeguards work the waterparks, all the resort pools, and the pool and the lake at the private cast member park, Mickey's Retreat) in the late 90s. I believe at the time it was 20 minutes on duty, 5-10 minutes rotating to the next station. There would always be a couple lifeguards rotating in this scheme and they'd able to assist if necessary.

It was very boring, and keeping my mental acuity sharp towards the end of shifts was a problem. Take care swimming late in the day.

Also, I don't ever swim in public pools anyone. We had to shut down the cast member pool one 4th of July because it was so dirty and so soiled, we couldn't see to the bottom of the deep end (6 feet / ~2m) and it presented a drowning hazard. The pool was closed for like 3 days after that while we waited for the water turbidity to go down.