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Effects of Daylight Saving Time on Traffic Accident Risk

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Re: Effects of Daylight Saving Time on Traffic Accident Risk

#51

Post by James_Henry »

gyrgtyn wrote: post #49
James_Henry wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Standard time isn't perfect though. The more west someone is in a time zone, the less sleep they often get because the sun goes down later in the evening. Some have estimated it to be as much as 20 minutes of sleep less, which is very significant over time. What we really need is for schools and work to start later in the day for a larger number of people so that the morning can be a time to sleep in, or if you are a…

> The more west someone is in a time zone, the less sleep they often get because the sun goes down later in the evening. isn't this even worst in DST? Maybe I'm thinking about it backwards...

Yes, this is worse during DST.

Re: Effects of Daylight Saving Time on Traffic Accident Risk

#52

Post by throw0101a »

To anyone advocating all-year DST: you're wrong.

The chronobiologists say permanent Standard Time is the best thing for humans:

* https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fphys.2019.0094...

* https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/article-turn-back-th...

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronobiology

Edit: down vote all you want, that won't change the peer-reviewed published papers.

Re: Effects of Daylight Saving Time on Traffic Accident Risk

#53

Post by throw0101a »

sturgill wrote: post #46
scrollaway wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always find these arguments kind of weird. Whether we turn or stop turning the clocks forwards/backwards doesn't mean we have to keep business hours the exact same, or even keep them static. Must be a US thing, what with all its timezones. China has a single timezone, and doesn't observe DST. Do you think that means people in the extreme west of china have to wake up at the exact same time as people in Beijing? In…

I’m a big fan of everyone in the world just using UTC and calling it a day. A meeting at 0700 is exactly what you think it means. But I also never expect it to happen.

It's not as good idea as you may thing:

* https://qntm.org/abolish

Okay, it's "1700Z" and you're at work: are the folks at the Singapore office in yet? If New York's business hours are 14-22Z, what are Berlin's? Bangalore's? Tokyo's? Seattle's?

At least with timezones you can do some simple +/- math and see if you end up in the typical '9-5L' range:

* https://everytimezone.com

But with only-UTC (as much I set my servers to it), you still have to keep a table of business hours.

Re: Effects of Daylight Saving Time on Traffic Accident Risk

#54

Post by samplatt »

benrbray wrote: post #23

I recognize that my position is uncommon, but I am in favor of what I call "2-DST" (two minus DST), a position which recognizes that DST is fundamentally backwards . Fewer daylight hours in the winter means we should turn the clocks forward in the winter , not the summer! "2-DST" is permanent daylight savings, except we additionally set the clocks an hour forward for the winter (just like we do now, in March). More o…

I've been proposing this for ages, under the name "Nighttime Savings", which doesn't make sense, but doesn't make any less sense than "Daylight Savings".

Re: Effects of Daylight Saving Time on Traffic Accident Risk

#55

Post by new_realist »

gyrgtyn wrote: post #36

I, for one, would like to wake up when the sun is up, and go to sleep when the sun is down. Isn't this this the same website where everyone is familiar with Why We Sleep? Standard Time forever

In the age of smartphones, there is no reason two dozen 2D time zones couldn’t exist in the US, with small shifts in time every day at 3 am to keep seven am as the dawn. Humans were meant to rise with the sun.

Re: Effects of Daylight Saving Time on Traffic Accident Risk

#56

Post by naniwaduni »

James_Henry wrote: post #41
samatman wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right now, if I want to schedule a meeting with London, I have two steps: figure out a good time for me, check if it's reasonable in London, adjust if necessary. If London was in the same time zone, I'd have to ascertain, somehow, what 0800 actually means in terms of the workday, and multiply that across every time zone I have to confer with (and there are a lot). No thanks. I like knowing that 5 pm means more-or-les…

You have to look it up either way, so I don't really understand why it would really be too much harder. For an example, if you are on the west coast you'd learn that 17 to 2 are good hours for you. Suppose on the day in question you know that 1 is the best time for you. Then you'd look at London and note that 9 to 18 are probably good for them. So you'll have to adjust. I don't see what new steps are introduced. You…

> I don't see what new steps are introduced.

Even in the best case, you don't really manage simplify anything, you apply the same offsets, except now everyone on the west coast wakes up on one weekday and goes to sleep on the next, not just the ones who get to bed after midnight. The change happens right at the end of the business day, rather than outside business hours. Every day.

Re: Effects of Daylight Saving Time on Traffic Accident Risk

#57

Post by benrbray »

James_Henry wrote: post #38
benrbray wrote: post #23

I recognize that my position is uncommon, but I am in favor of what I call "2-DST" (two minus DST), a position which recognizes that DST is fundamentally backwards . Fewer daylight hours in the winter means we should turn the clocks forward in the winter , not the summer! "2-DST" is permanent daylight savings, except we additionally set the clocks an hour forward for the winter (just like we do now, in March). More o…

You'll also have more car accidents, heart attacks, sleep deprivation, etc. People, especially adolescents, should be able to sleep in more and given societies current 9-5 scheduling, the sooner the sun goes down (by the clock) the more sleep that people generally get.

Anecdotally: in places like Michigan where it's dark by 6pm in the winters, darkness really has no correlation with sleeping hours. "2-DST" would actually make it easier for working people to align their sleep schedule with the daylight.

Re: Effects of Daylight Saving Time on Traffic Accident Risk

#58

Post by benrbray »

James_Henry wrote: post #38
benrbray wrote: post #23

I recognize that my position is uncommon, but I am in favor of what I call "2-DST" (two minus DST), a position which recognizes that DST is fundamentally backwards . Fewer daylight hours in the winter means we should turn the clocks forward in the winter , not the summer! "2-DST" is permanent daylight savings, except we additionally set the clocks an hour forward for the winter (just like we do now, in March). More o…

You'll also have more car accidents, heart attacks, sleep deprivation, etc. People, especially adolescents, should be able to sleep in more and given societies current 9-5 scheduling, the sooner the sun goes down (by the clock) the more sleep that people generally get.

Additionally, the OP seems to indicate the increased accidents are due to issues we have adjusting to the time change. You can certainly argue we should get rid of the time change altogether, but 2-DST would have the same time changes as our current system. Maybe there's an increased risk of traffic accidents as a result of increased evening activity. But I'd argue that's a problem with our society's unhealthy dependence on cars, rather than with 2-DST.

Re: Effects of Daylight Saving Time on Traffic Accident Risk

#59

Post by vagab0nd »

Genuine question to the experts: What are the chances that this effect is caused by how we attribute the accidents to time intervals? I haven't read the whole paper, but when they say accident rate is increased by 6%, is that counted by 24-hour intervals? Or by calendar days?

Re: Effects of Daylight Saving Time on Traffic Accident Risk

#60

Post by samatman »

naniwaduni wrote: post #56
James_Henry wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have to look it up either way, so I don't really understand why it would really be too much harder. For an example, if you are on the west coast you'd learn that 17 to 2 are good hours for you. Suppose on the day in question you know that 1 is the best time for you. Then you'd look at London and note that 9 to 18 are probably good for them. So you'll have to adjust. I don't see what new steps are introduced. You…

> I don't see what new steps are introduced. Even in the best case, you don't really manage simplify anything, you apply the same offsets, except now everyone on the west coast wakes up on one weekday and goes to sleep on the next, not just the ones who get to bed after midnight. The change happens right at the end of the business day, rather than outside business hours. Every day.

"Cool what are you doing Tuesday night?"

"Uh do you mean... calendar Tuesday, or uh Tuesday Tuesday?"

Repeated over half of the globe, forever.

I do a lot of remote meetings with people all over the globe, I work for a remote company, and I do. not. want. this.

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