Effects of Daylight Saving Time on Traffic Accident Risk • Hacker News Board

Re: Effects of Daylight Saving Time on Traffic Accident Risk

#31

Post by axaxs » Wed, Mar 04, 2020, 2:28 AM UTC

Mountain_Skies wrote: post #10

Georgia is putting DST on the ballot this November. Voters will have a choice to stay with DST, going to standard time year around, or asking Congress for permission to stay on DST year around. My guess is none of the options will receive a majority vote but year around DST will get the plurality. Since that requires Congressional approval and the ballot referendum is non-binding, nothing will change as a result. Hav…

They literally can't stay on DST. Florida already basically passed this, but it's held up in Congress as is tradition. Check out the Sunshine Protection Act.

So, right now states can't stay on DST because federal law doesn't currently allow it. It does however allow permanent standard time, and petitioning for change of time zone. So, I wish Georgia, Florida, et al would just give Congress a big middle finger by switching to permanent Atlantic Standard Time. Maybe then they'd realize how silly this all is.

Re: Effects of Daylight Saving Time on Traffic Accident Risk

#32

Post by imron » Wed, Mar 04, 2020, 2:28 AM UTC

scrollaway wrote: post #24

benrbray wrote: post #23

I recognize that my position is uncommon, but I am in favor of what I call "2-DST" (two minus DST), a position which recognizes that DST is fundamentally backwards . Fewer daylight hours in the winter means we should turn the clocks forward in the winter , not the summer! "2-DST" is permanent daylight savings, except we additionally set the clocks an hour forward for the winter (just like we do now, in March). More o…

I always find these arguments kind of weird. Whether we turn or stop turning the clocks forwards/backwards doesn't mean we have to keep business hours the exact same, or even keep them static. Must be a US thing, what with all its timezones. China has a single timezone, and doesn't observe DST. Do you think that means people in the extreme west of china have to wake up at the exact same time as people in Beijing? In…

> the Xinjiang region of China has two timezones used concurrently

And it's a complete mess. If you think daylight savings is complicated, wait until two geographically distant regions are on the same time but a different time.

> Want to give your employees more daylight in winter?

Rarely is it the employers wanting this, it is the employees.

Re: Effects of Daylight Saving Time on Traffic Accident Risk

#33

Post by gyrgtyn » Wed, Mar 04, 2020, 2:52 AM UTC

benrbray wrote: post #23

I recognize that my position is uncommon, but I am in favor of what I call "2-DST" (two minus DST), a position which recognizes that DST is fundamentally backwards . Fewer daylight hours in the winter means we should turn the clocks forward in the winter , not the summer! "2-DST" is permanent daylight savings, except we additionally set the clocks an hour forward for the winter (just like we do now, in March). More o…

we disagree

Re: Effects of Daylight Saving Time on Traffic Accident Risk

#34

Post by benrbray » Wed, Mar 04, 2020, 2:59 AM UTC

scrollaway wrote: post #24

benrbray wrote: post #23

I recognize that my position is uncommon, but I am in favor of what I call "2-DST" (two minus DST), a position which recognizes that DST is fundamentally backwards . Fewer daylight hours in the winter means we should turn the clocks forward in the winter , not the summer! "2-DST" is permanent daylight savings, except we additionally set the clocks an hour forward for the winter (just like we do now, in March). More o…

I always find these arguments kind of weird. Whether we turn or stop turning the clocks forwards/backwards doesn't mean we have to keep business hours the exact same, or even keep them static. Must be a US thing, what with all its timezones. China has a single timezone, and doesn't observe DST. Do you think that means people in the extreme west of china have to wake up at the exact same time as people in Beijing? In…

I agree in principle, but if the goal really is to give working people more daylight to enjoy, it's not really practical for something like this to happen bottom up.

Businesses' open hours more often than not depend on the open hours of their suppliers and their customers. Not really possible to make a local change and expect everyone to follow. Much easier if everyone changes simultaneously.

Re: Effects of Daylight Saving Time on Traffic Accident Risk

#35

Post by benrbray » Wed, Mar 04, 2020, 2:59 AM UTC

gyrgtyn wrote: post #33

benrbray wrote: post #23

I recognize that my position is uncommon, but I am in favor of what I call "2-DST" (two minus DST), a position which recognizes that DST is fundamentally backwards . Fewer daylight hours in the winter means we should turn the clocks forward in the winter , not the summer! "2-DST" is permanent daylight savings, except we additionally set the clocks an hour forward for the winter (just like we do now, in March). More o…

we disagree

Who? Why? I said I didn't really expect anyone to agree with me. I'm interested in discussing the pros and cons.

Re: Effects of Daylight Saving Time on Traffic Accident Risk

#36

Post by gyrgtyn » Wed, Mar 04, 2020, 3:01 AM UTC

I, for one, would like to wake up when the sun is up, and go to sleep when the sun is down. Isn't this this the same website where everyone is familiar with Why We Sleep? Standard Time forever

Re: Effects of Daylight Saving Time on Traffic Accident Risk

#37

Post by James_Henry » Wed, Mar 04, 2020, 3:05 AM UTC

gyrgtyn wrote: post #36

I, for one, would like to wake up when the sun is up, and go to sleep when the sun is down. Isn't this this the same website where everyone is familiar with Why We Sleep? Standard Time forever

Standard time isn't perfect though. The more west someone is in a time zone, the less sleep they often get because the sun goes down later in the evening. Some have estimated it to be as much as 20 minutes of sleep less, which is very significant over time.

What we really need is for schools and work to start later in the day for a larger number of people so that the morning can be a time to sleep in, or if you are a morning person do your morning things.

I almost think that getting rid of time zones in the US might make it so that people are more cognizant of where the sun is and so that society runs on a more local time.

Re: Effects of Daylight Saving Time on Traffic Accident Risk

#38

Post by James_Henry » Wed, Mar 04, 2020, 3:09 AM UTC

benrbray wrote: post #23

I recognize that my position is uncommon, but I am in favor of what I call "2-DST" (two minus DST), a position which recognizes that DST is fundamentally backwards . Fewer daylight hours in the winter means we should turn the clocks forward in the winter , not the summer! "2-DST" is permanent daylight savings, except we additionally set the clocks an hour forward for the winter (just like we do now, in March). More o…

You'll also have more car accidents, heart attacks, sleep deprivation, etc. People, especially adolescents, should be able to sleep in more and given societies current 9-5 scheduling, the sooner the sun goes down (by the clock) the more sleep that people generally get.

Re: Effects of Daylight Saving Time on Traffic Accident Risk

#39

Post by phaedryx » Wed, Mar 04, 2020, 3:12 AM UTC

minikites wrote: post #20

I'm a fan of changing the clocks twice a year for the reasons nicely laid out in this article: http://www.leancrew.com/all-this/2013/03/why-i-like-dst/ >If we stayed on Standard Time throughout the year, sunrise here in the Chicago area would be between 4:15 and 4:30 am from the middle of May through the middle of July. And if you check the times for civil twilight, which is when it’s bright enough to see without art…

It would be better for children to start school later in the day anyway.

Re: Effects of Daylight Saving Time on Traffic Accident Risk

#40

Post by James_Henry » Wed, Mar 04, 2020, 3:16 AM UTC

mjevans wrote: post #11

Mountain_Skies wrote: post #10

Georgia is putting DST on the ballot this November. Voters will have a choice to stay with DST, going to standard time year around, or asking Congress for permission to stay on DST year around. My guess is none of the options will receive a majority vote but year around DST will get the plurality. Since that requires Congressional approval and the ballot referendum is non-binding, nothing will change as a result. Hav…

Vote for no more adjustments, I don't care if that's UTC, nation wide 'Eastern', DST or not DST... just leave things the same all year. I've got a slight preference for everyone going UTC with no DST so that meetings and events are easier to schedule across the world. UTC would be great if it weren't for how everyone wants to think of E.G. 8AM or 9AM or whatever as a common start time and then uses DST to try and adj…

Honestly, this comment is spot on. I think people don't realize that the fact that we are so accustomed to the 8 or 9 am meaning the start of the school or work day is not good for public health. If we had UTC or some nation wide time like China there might be more thought about when to actually start things and where the sun is actually at.

The article points out that western edges of time zones are hit harder by clock changes. Other research also shows that they are in general sleeping less on western edges because the sun goes down later and they still have to get up at the same time as eastern edges.

Because of this, while all-year DST would be better than what we have, it is still worse for public health than all-year standard time which is maybe worse than UTC (as people will start thinking more about the sun and maybe in 30 minute chunks instead of hours).