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Money Won’t Buy You Health Insurance

nytimes.com

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Re: Money Won’t Buy You Health Insurance

#121

Post by Groxx »

cwp wrote: post #99
Groxx wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope, I'm pretty sure everyone agrees it's broken. And just to re-clarify: I'm not claiming we're not paying too much. I agree with everything you've said. Just that $50-100/month is un-doably low regardless of brokenness. I'll be reading through the links, I can always use more detailed info for future debates. Thanks! edit for repliers: before stating that location X has 100 or less per month, how much do your taxe…

No, it's not. I pay $120/month for a family of three, and get pretty good care for it. I know that smug Canadians are a cliche in any discussion of health care, but we are an existence proof that acabal's expectations are totally reasonable.

How much of that is subsidized by your taxes? That counts towards the final cost. Spreading it out doesn't make it less real.

edit: answered for you:

>In 2009, the government funded about 70% of Canadians' health care costs.

>Per capita expenditure in 2009: 3,895

$227 per month, per person, comes from the government, which gets its funding from your taxes. So you're paying $801/month for that plan (three people). Significantly less than many Americans, there's no debating that, but $120/month isn't anywhere near correct.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_Canada

Re: Money Won’t Buy You Health Insurance

#122

Post by cschneid »

harold wrote: post #72

My wife and I are healthy. But we've seen our rates more than double in the last year. I've heard many stories like the one referenced in the article where healthy people are having hard time even finding insurance. A friend (a plumber) told me the other day that he was really struggling to afford insurance for his family because his premiums had more than doubled as well. He said he had incurred 3 rate increases in…

My early-twenties girlfriend is able to stay on her dad's health insurance. Which is good because she has a chronic condition that would cancel any chance of purchasing individual insurance.

So yes, people have seen benefits.

Re: Money Won’t Buy You Health Insurance

#123

Post by rdouble »

carlygeehr wrote: post #120
SandB0x wrote: post #32

I would have died at the age of 19 if it weren't for the help of the UK's National Health Service. My parents and I didn't have to worry about hospital bills, future insurance issues, being tied to a job, any of that crap. Just get some rest, get better, go out there and be productive again. The American system looks like a horrible joke from over here. I just can't understand any of it.

I challenge anyone with a painful but non-life-threatening injury - say, a torn labrum, or a torn ACL - to go live in Canada or the UK and see what their treatment is like compared to here. Anyone?

This is the dark side of the Canadian system. Long waits for elective care. My dad is a doctor near the Canadian border and a good % of patients in his local system are Canadians who are coming down to pay out of pocket for elective surgeries they would have to wait for years to get in Canada. On the other hand, another hot business in my homeland was sending busloads of senior citizens up to Canada to buy cheaper generic drugs.

Re: Money Won’t Buy You Health Insurance

#124

Post by Groxx »

dalke wrote: post #95
Groxx wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Totally agree, for relatively healthy younger people willing to risk bankruptcy, it's a massively cheaper option. I'm merely saying that that kind of cost is nearly impossible to achieve, as reaching it would incur costs elsewhere. Distributing the cost doesn't make it less real.

You say it, but you don't back it up with evidence. How is it that the US already pays more money per person for health care but with measurably worse results (measured as life expectancy, infant mortality, etc). How do they achieve what you call impossible?

Measurably worse results than where? It's measurably better than many places.

I say it because many many many other places subsidize healthcare at least as much as America does. And people don't seem to count the taxes they pay as part of the monthly cost.

edit: edited my top comment, sources are there. Canadians, famous for cheap healthcare, pay $324 per month per person for healthcare. The government covers $227 of that, which means $227 per person per month comes from taxes.

Re: Money Won’t Buy You Health Insurance

#125

Post by sudonim »

MaysonL wrote: post #115
Lewisham wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing to do, is if your health care is paid for by taxes (like the NHS), is for taxes to be levied proportionately on the higher-risk things that will hospitalize you. The UK already has sky-high taxation on tobacco. I rather like the idea of the Fat Tax as well. Placing a tax on fat content would increase the proportion of earnings used for the NHS by those who would use it the most. It would also provide a disi…

Fat content has virtually nothing to do with obesity. I get 20-30% of my calories from fat (mainly butter and cheese), weigh about 155 lb., 6-1, lipid levels good.

Kudos to you. So many people equate fat to increasing your fat. Granted, drinking a glass of bacon grease is no good for you, but replacing it with chemically altered low-fat everything is not a viable replacement.

Re: Money Won’t Buy You Health Insurance

#126

Post by raganwald »

shiny wrote: post #109
tonfa wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are inclined to move somewhere else, there are lots of countries with affordable healthcare (most of Europe, and I guess Canada for example).

How easy are these countries to get into (and become a working member of their society)? I know Switzerland and New Zealand are particularly tough.

Canada has more opportunities than people, which is why getting in is particularly easy.

Re: Money Won’t Buy You Health Insurance

#127

Post by marshray »

DougBTX wrote: post #58
marshray wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At $50-100/month, they would have to sap you for nearly a decade to make up a single surgery. How many surgeries per decade do you think typical healthy nonsmoking twenty-somethings are having?

How many decades you expect him to be a twenty-something?

Him in particular, 10 years. Probably his risk category may be similar or even better into his 30s though.

But nobody claimed he in particular should have the same policy or the same rate for the rest of his life. The point of insurance is to aggregate risk over large populations.

Re: Money Won’t Buy You Health Insurance

#128

Post by kooshball »

rapind wrote: post #53
krschultz wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not the difference between a family and a company, its the size of the group. Thus the costs for a company with 10,000 people is far different than a company with 10. Also, if you have a group of 2,5,10 or 20, the insurance company has an easier time denying you because if you get pissed and drop them, its not a big loss for them. In contrast, if you deny the right person at a 10,000 person company, they lose a…

As a group you have more leverage purchasing pretty much any service. I wonder what it would take to put together a group buy app for health insurance.

> As a group you have more leverage purchasing pretty much any service

although this is true, the leverage gained through group is different for other services, where a bulk order is much cheaper. Assuming everyone's making rational decisions, the only people that would want insurance would be the high risk ones. Insurance companies would loss money regardless of the rates they charge because the only rational people that would pay it would be the ones that think they would likely benefit from it, since they have additional information (eating habit, risk level, etc ) over the insurance company. By putting a lot of people (high risk and low risk) in a group, the insurance company can balance out the group and make a small gain on top of the expected payout.

Re: Money Won’t Buy You Health Insurance

#129

Post by hartror »

I might be living in a socialist paradise (Australia) or some thing but my last visit to the doctor (broken toe) was free.

I am truly horrified by the state of the US health system, sure Australia's might be a bit messed up at times but it is so much better than what Americans have to deal with.

Move your startup to Australia! Seriously, cheap/free heathcare for minor->medium problems (the bad stuff is still going to throw up some major bills but not bankruptcy worthy). As a plus we have a superior economy right now, better living standards and hot women.

Not sure the state of the laws regarding Americans access to our healthcare but worth a look.

Re: Money Won’t Buy You Health Insurance

#130

Post by sudonim »

SandB0x wrote: post #32

I would have died at the age of 19 if it weren't for the help of the UK's National Health Service. My parents and I didn't have to worry about hospital bills, future insurance issues, being tied to a job, any of that crap. Just get some rest, get better, go out there and be productive again. The American system looks like a horrible joke from over here. I just can't understand any of it.

The irony of all these comments is the US government actually does pay for a lot of health care costs...

"In 2006, 70% of health care spending in Canada was financed by government, versus 46% in the United States."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_the_health_care_s...

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