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SETI@home shuts down after 21 years

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Re: SETI@home shuts down after 21 years

#71
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Proof of work relies on computations that are hard to do but easy to check that someone has done. The entire network has to check someone's proposed result. There are very few computations that have sufficient asymmetry to the degree needed to make bitcoin work, and the types of things that SETI@home needs don't fit that bill.

Isn't Folding@Home trying to run an asymmetrical computation, though? The broad strokes as I understand them are that you have a sequence of amines, you arrange them into a three-dimensional protein (the hard part) by whatever method, and then you evaluate the energy bound within your structure (the easier part?). Lower energy is better. The obvious problem is that there's no judgment of "correct" or "incorrect". Ana…

Protein folding might work as a proof-of-work algorithm. One big problem is of course that it's useful work that could conceivably be monetized.

Proof-of-work works because a theoretical attacker would have to invest huge resources into an attack. For bitcoin it's trivial to say "for attack scenario X an attack has to spend at least Y", and as long as the expected reward is lower than Y the network is safe (that's for example one factor you use to determine how many confirmations you wait before accepting a payment). If the attacker could conceivably gain money outside the cryptocurrency for performing the proof-of-work, that makes the whole calculation less predictable, and likely exposes you to more situations where an attack is actually profitable.

Re: SETI@home shuts down after 21 years

#72

Did SETI@home accomplish anything useful with its 21 years of computing? Outside of the general "it's always good to do science, even with negative results" which I agree with. I ran a large cluster of university machines surreptitiously for this project many years ago.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SHGb02%2B14a

Re: SETI@home shuts down after 21 years

#73
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Duron Now there's a name I haven't heard in a while. Duron, the poorerer man's Celeron.

Celeron 300A, the relative poorer man's Pentium

I still have 2 of these in my old hardware box. I used to run them at 4.5x100MHz on Abit BH6 single CPU mobo. Great way for me to bump performance as a poor CompSci student. And yeah, I ran SETI@home on them as well.

Re: SETI@home shuts down after 21 years

#74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Duron Now there's a name I haven't heard in a while. Duron, the poorerer man's Celeron.

Hahah, I can relate so much with the 'poorerer' part, I'll raise you another one: my first '686' was a Cyrix 6x86 because those were the cheapest you could get. Eventually got my hands on a Pentium II and had to scavenge parts to replace my setup. Good times. Nowadays I just buy a laptop with everything soldered on it and complain a lot if I have to reboot it every month.

In the late 90s I had a 486sx33 with one of those Cyrix 586 upgrade chips for the math co-processor slot. It was so hot it had a fan on it! Crazy!

I also maxed out the RAM to 32mb and upgrade the SRAM in my Trident video card so I could do 256 color in Windows 95.

I also had a 40mb Erwin Tape Drive for backing up my 100mb HDD. It wasn't fast but it was faster than reinstalling Tie Fighter from Floppies.

Re: SETI@home shuts down after 21 years

#75
post #18

I remember being a younger pup and building fleets of machines (including overclocking, etc) for the sole purpose of running S@H, and all of the amazing software the spun up around it... SetiSpy, SetiDriver, SetiQ. I often wonder how machines of today would compare in work production to my old Duron 800, but alas.

Had that same processor on my third computer.

Great era to build your own stuff.

Re: SETI@home shuts down after 21 years

#76
post #63
post #44

I wonder how much $/co2 of power was spent during the lifetime of the project.

This is why I never did it. I remember thinking it was really cool back when I was in high school, but could never justify the electricity use.

I ran BOINC in winter; as it's not wasting if you're already using heaters.

Re: SETI@home shuts down after 21 years

#77
post #18

I remember being a younger pup and building fleets of machines (including overclocking, etc) for the sole purpose of running S@H, and all of the amazing software the spun up around it... SetiSpy, SetiDriver, SetiQ. I often wonder how machines of today would compare in work production to my old Duron 800, but alas.

Wondered the same thing!

Perhaps "they" (the committee) were afraid that computers were getting powerful enough that we might just find something. Better pull the plug.

Re: SETI@home shuts down after 21 years

#78
post #18

I remember being a younger pup and building fleets of machines (including overclocking, etc) for the sole purpose of running S@H, and all of the amazing software the spun up around it... SetiSpy, SetiDriver, SetiQ. I often wonder how machines of today would compare in work production to my old Duron 800, but alas.

I worked for a large insurance company, my first job, when SETI@Home was launched. It was a typical large cubicle farm. I remember sneaking around to any unused WindowsNT workstation around me and installing it. Good times, good times.

Re: SETI@home shuts down after 21 years

#80
Not to sound like a broken record (I and others have said this or similar on these kinds of threads) but... I, personally, have become convinced that looking for signals this way is actually pointless.

The argument is basically this:

1. Within 1000 years (and maybe a lot less) we will have the engineering capability to build space habitats, powered by solar power. This last part is important because this thought experiment isn't gated on commercial viability of nuclear fusion power, which I'm not yet convinced is possible.

2. These space habitats are far more efficient at creating living area than planets. I forget the exact numbers but something like 1% of the mass of Mercury is enough to create enough living area for something like 10^16 to 10^18 people.

3. Space habitats are more convenient and cheaper to move between than leaving or even entering a gravity well like Earth's.

4. Roughly one billionth of the Sun's energy hits the Earth.

5. Once you have the ability to create one of these things, each becomes progressively easier.

This, of course, is the classic Dyson Swarm. Originally this was called a Dyson Sphere but this has led some to think it's a solid shell around a star. That was never the intent. Even if it was, no known or currently theorized material could support this.

Dyson Swarms are not subtle. Even a partial Dyson Swarm should be detectable as a large IR source compared to how much visible light is produced. This is because the only way for something in space to cool down is to radiate that heat away and physics determines the wavelength of that based on the temperature of the object.

Standard objection: what if you can recycle that heat? Well, you can't do that perfectly (as this would violate Thermodynamics) and even if you reduce IR emissions by 90%, you've simply reduced the IR emissions by one order of magnitude. For comparison, the Sun produces roughly 4x10^26 Watts of power.

So if you accept the above premises the gap between stabbing each other with swords and having this technology, at least for us, is 1000-2000 years, a cosmic blink of an eye to produce signals without the above IR signature. Those are long odds.

Personally I subscribe to the view that technological life is, at least within a billion light years of us, is likely quite rare.

The above is a very superficial summary of a topic that Isaac Arthur's channel goes into great depth about. I guarantee you any objection you have has at least one video that goes into that in great depth.

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