Earlier quoted context omitted.
But it's written by someone involved in the tech world, that makes it hacker news
I think it's hacker news because hackers struggling to become ramen-profitable (or even just thinking about it!) are directly affected by the cost and availability of health insurance. It's a big factor for many people in deciding whether they want to quit their cube jobs that keep them insured to strike out on their own.
Money Won’t Buy You Health Insurance
21–30 of 442 posts
Re: Money Won’t Buy You Health Insurance
#22This really highlights how utterly insane our system is. I'm living off of my own business, which means that I don't have an employer to cover me under group insurance. But I really only make enough to live frugally and save a tiny amount each month--to me, an affordable health insurance plan would be between $50-$100 a month. Fat chance of that happening. And if it did, the deductible would be so high as to make the…
Fat chance of that happening. And if it did, the deductible would be so high as to make the plan worthless for anything short of a car-crash-emergency-type-situation.
This fits a fair number of cost complaints I hear over healthcare. Who wouldn't like to pay $50-100/month to have something better than emergency healthcare support? But think about the costs of such a system, regardless of inefficiencies / the problems of the current system that make things cost hundreds of thousands:
Doctors and nurses and supporting staff must exist. So must hospitals. They are highly trained, and will be expensive - period. They also have to keep learning, so they can't be busy making money all the time. And they must have such people available all the time, or people die.
Given that, and the equipment and check-up and hospital time, how much should a minor surgery cost? Not in cost to you, in cost. If the cost to you is mitigated in any way, it's extracted another way (taxes). I'd have trouble seeing it cost less than a few thousand dollars in the best, highly-used system. That's a lot of training and a lot of supporting necessities for any random surgery.
At $50-100/month, they would have to sap you for nearly a decade to make up a single surgery. It might even out for the insurance company if that was it - but certainly not when you get older, and not with any kind of routine, preventative care. Scale that up to emergency situations where major surgery and years of rehab for even 0.1% of the people they're covering - how many hundreds of years does that cost everyone on the plan?
Cataclysmic health insurance is cheap because it only covers cataclysms. Because one in a hundred lives cost an utterly enormous amount more than a single person generates.
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None of this is to say that I think the healthcare system is efficient by any means, nor not full of corruption, waste, frivolous lawsuits, or damaging dogma. Merely that there is simply a bottom limit that the prices that people want to pay will never be able to support, unless all cataclysmic protection is dropped. And would you rather die from a car crash, or be rehab'd for a couple years and continue your life for another 60 years? So people choose the cataclysmic protection, and prices jump.
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edit: because this seems it will come up often, some evidence for my claim based on Canada's setup, copied from another comment I made below: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_Canada
>In 2009, the government funded about 70% of Canadians' health care costs.
>Per capita expenditure in 2009: 3,895
$227 per month, per person, comes from the government, which means it comes from taxes. And an additional $100 per person is spent per month on average ($324.58 per month). Far in excess of $50-$100.
Re: Money Won’t Buy You Health Insurance
#23The subtle but crazy part about this is at the bottom when it details the author: "Donna Dubinsky, a co-founder of Palm Computer and Handspring, is the chief executive of a computer software company." I'm going to go out on a limb and say money is not an issue for Donna, yet she still can't even buy insurance if she wants to. I've always thought healthcare access was a bigger hurdle for entrepreneurs than tax rates.…
I think she could buy insurance if she really wanted. I've thought about this a lot because I could easily be in this situation. If I did anything on my own I would need a group plan quickly. You only need 2 people to create a group. So you can buy insurance its expensive, here is how you do it. 1) Start a company. 2) Hire another employee (this costs a lot) 3) Make a group health insurance policy for the company. Th…
Re: Money Won’t Buy You Health Insurance
#24The subtle but crazy part about this is at the bottom when it details the author: "Donna Dubinsky, a co-founder of Palm Computer and Handspring, is the chief executive of a computer software company." I'm going to go out on a limb and say money is not an issue for Donna, yet she still can't even buy insurance if she wants to. I've always thought healthcare access was a bigger hurdle for entrepreneurs than tax rates.…
Re: Money Won’t Buy You Health Insurance
#25I left the Army where I had free healthcare for me and my family - I got spoiled. I really can't afford it now that I'm out and not with a big company. I've thought of going into the Reserves just to have the option to buy it again. Healthcare really does suck.
Re: Money Won’t Buy You Health Insurance
#26I left the Army where I had free healthcare for me and my family - I got spoiled. I really can't afford it now that I'm out and not with a big company. I've thought of going into the Reserves just to have the option to buy it again. Healthcare really does suck.
If you are inclined to move somewhere else, there are lots of countries with affordable healthcare (most of Europe, and I guess Canada for example).
Re: Money Won’t Buy You Health Insurance
#27Earlier quoted context omitted.
But it's written by someone involved in the tech world, that makes it hacker news
I think it's hacker news because hackers struggling to become ramen-profitable (or even just thinking about it!) are directly affected by the cost and availability of health insurance. It's a big factor for many people in deciding whether they want to quit their cube jobs that keep them insured to strike out on their own.
And I think that's total bullshit and people who don't want to strike out won't and will find lots of reasons not to, while people who want to strike out will, and figure out how to make it work.
Kind of takes us to a rhetorical dead end, since we're both wildly speculating about what some imaginary people we dream up might or might not do. All we're really doing is inventing examples to support opinions that we've already decided to hold.
Look -- I think health insurance needs fixing. I also think the current solution is so bad we should fire every Congressman who voted for it and run them out of town on a rail. I further believe that if two reasonable people sat down, they'd find that most of us really aren't that far apart on the issues. But this looks like picking a fight. For no reason.
Re: Money Won’t Buy You Health Insurance
#28It is broken. Seriously broken.
Re: Money Won’t Buy You Health Insurance
#29This really highlights how utterly insane our system is. I'm living off of my own business, which means that I don't have an employer to cover me under group insurance. But I really only make enough to live frugally and save a tiny amount each month--to me, an affordable health insurance plan would be between $50-$100 a month. Fat chance of that happening. And if it did, the deductible would be so high as to make the…
> to me, an affordable health insurance plan would be between $50-$100 a month. Fat chance of that happening. And if it did, the deductible would be so high as to make the plan worthless for anything short of a car-crash-emergency-type-situation. This fits a fair number of cost complaints I hear over healthcare. Who wouldn't like to pay $50-100/month to have something better than emergency healthcare support? But thi…
Anyway, this isn't the place to get in a discussion about how to fix the system. But as it stands now, it's just a fact that my bank account is better served by not being insured, having minor procedures done in another country, and declaring bankruptcy in the event of a cataclysm. That's not what the system in the richest and most powerful country in the world should look like.