How Do We Know That Epic Poems Were Recited from Memory?
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How Do We Know That Epic Poems Were Recited from Memory?
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Re: How Do We Know That Epic Poems Were Recited from Memory?
#2This is how the books of the Odyssey are structured:
TROY
----
1. Kikones (innocent city is ambushed)
2. Lotus Eaters (temptation, delay)
3. Cyclops (monster)
4. Aeolus (greedy crew delays journey)
5. Laestrygonians (monster)
6. Circe (temptation)
7. HADES
8. Sirens (temptation)
9. Scylla (monster)
10. Cattle/Sun (greedy crew delays journey)
11. Charybdis (monster)
12. Calypso (temptation, delay)
13. Phaecia (innocent city is ambushed)
----
ITHACA
The episodes make a perfect reflection across the Hades episode; Circe and Sirens are both forms of temptation, Scylla and Laestrygonians are both monsters, etc. Also notice the smaller reflections inside of this large one: Scylla and Charybdis are similar monsters in the same way that the Cyclops is similar to the Laestrygonians.
It's perhaps easier to remember a number like 12140904121 than it is to remember a series of random digits.
Re: How Do We Know That Epic Poems Were Recited from Memory?
#3This is how the books of the Odyssey are structured: TROY ---- 1. Kikones (innocent city is ambushed) 2. Lotus Eaters (temptation, delay) 3. Cyclops (monster) 4. Aeolus (greedy crew delays journey) 5. Laestrygonians (monster) 6. Circe (temptation) 7. HADES 8. Sirens (temptation) 9. Scylla (monster) 10. Cattle/Sun (greedy crew delays journey) 11. Charybdis (monster) 12. Calypso (temptation, delay) 13. Phaecia (innocen…
I'm unsure of your point here--isn't memorizing the text itself much harder than knowing this kind of high level structure, which I venture many people had/have no conscious awareness of anyway?
Re: How Do We Know That Epic Poems Were Recited from Memory?
#4This is how the books of the Odyssey are structured: TROY ---- 1. Kikones (innocent city is ambushed) 2. Lotus Eaters (temptation, delay) 3. Cyclops (monster) 4. Aeolus (greedy crew delays journey) 5. Laestrygonians (monster) 6. Circe (temptation) 7. HADES 8. Sirens (temptation) 9. Scylla (monster) 10. Cattle/Sun (greedy crew delays journey) 11. Charybdis (monster) 12. Calypso (temptation, delay) 13. Phaecia (innocen…
I'm unsure of your point here--isn't memorizing the text itself much harder than knowing this kind of high level structure, which I venture many people had/have no conscious awareness of anyway?
I think that the oration of these poems might be akin to jazz playing, where a musician knows the broad, basic structure of a work and fills it in with improvisation.
Re: How Do We Know That Epic Poems Were Recited from Memory?
#5I read some of the classic epics before learning about their mode of delivery and memorization, and was a bit perplexed at some of the repetitions and formulae.
Then I learned that, for example, some characters would have multiple epithets (grey-eyed, neat-ankled, all-seeing, etc) that in Greek would be selected essentially not because they were the best descriptor, but because they were the ones that would complete the line within the meter! So if there were two extra syllables, the reciter would use one of these, but if there were three extra, they could use one of the other two.
There are a bunch of these formulaic sayings, lines, or even entire little episodes, that could be recited to gain a little time to remember the next part, or speed up the action if the audience was flagging, and so on. The entire form was structured around live performance and improvisation. That was really revelatory for me.
Naturally they lose something in being recorded in static form - retaining other forms of natural beauty and (as hnaa points out in another comment) their symmetry, symbolism and meta-construction. Still such a pleasure to read!
Re: How Do We Know That Epic Poems Were Recited from Memory?
#6I read some of the classic epics before learning about their mode of delivery and memorization, and was a bit perplexed at some of the repetitions and formulae. Then I learned that, for example, some characters would have multiple epithets (grey-eyed, neat-ankled, all-seeing, etc) that in Greek would be selected essentially not because they were the best descriptor, but because they were the ones that would complete…
Yep, all of the "wine-dark sea"s and "rosy-fingered dawn"s might have worked as filler while the poet was queueing up the next part of the narrative.
Re: How Do We Know That Epic Poems Were Recited from Memory?
#7Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm unsure of your point here--isn't memorizing the text itself much harder than knowing this kind of high level structure, which I venture many people had/have no conscious awareness of anyway?
I think that the oration of these poems might be akin to jazz playing, where a musician knows the broad, basic structure of a work and fills it in with improvisation.
So then, “the” canonical version of eg the Iliad is just one version that was recorded, and it would have actually varied across the different retellings?
Re: How Do We Know That Epic Poems Were Recited from Memory?
#8Did scholars really believe that verbal transmission of poetry/religious was rare? It's a well documented trait of tons of Proto-Indo-European cultures such as Celtic, Norse, Germanic, Greek, Iranian, and Indic.
Re: How Do We Know That Epic Poems Were Recited from Memory?
#9I've always found Pathas fascinating-
Re: How Do We Know That Epic Poems Were Recited from Memory?
#10Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think that the oration of these poems might be akin to jazz playing, where a musician knows the broad, basic structure of a work and fills it in with improvisation.
So then, “the” canonical version of eg the Iliad is just one version that was recorded, and it would have actually varied across the different retellings?
Oh, yeah, we don't even have a canonical version of _Hamlet_, let alone for oral poems from the 8th century BC.