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In Praise of Chorded Input

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Re: In Praise of Chorded Input

#31

Post by falcolas »

tartoran wrote: post #30
falcolas wrote: post #11

The older I get, the less I like key chording. This is particularly exacerbated by the lack of a common key chording scheme between Windows, Linux, and OSX. It becomes a mental stutter as I have to constantly override my muscle memory. It's probably why I like VIM editor schemes so much - there's significantly less chording required. I've also noticed the preference come up when playing games. Ideally, I would simply…

I love key cording but use it on actions I am likely to repeat thousands of times if not more. Yes, they are all inconsistent between systems but how many times do you switch systems? And even if that happens on a daily basis, say use one program from one system and another one from a different system, it is still a net gain to learn the shortcuts for things that are likely to be used a lot. I get tripped off a bit w…

> how many times do you switch systems

Daily. Am I ever thankful that VIM is (mostly) the same across OSes. :/

Work: OSx

Play: Windows

Hobby: OSx terminal (effectively Linux)

The bigger problem for me is that muscle memory between OSes is broken by something as simple as "how to do I get to the head (or tail) of the current line I'm on?" On Windows, it's Home/End. OSx is Cmd+Left/Right. Terminal, it's Ctrl+A/E (or Home/End, sometimes).

Re: In Praise of Chorded Input

#32

Post by trey-jones »

roosterdawn wrote: post #19
trey-jones wrote: post #15

Emacs users will agree. Indeed I am 100% convinced that being an Emacs user enabled me to pick up the piano and be better at it than I was the last time I played 20 years ago.

This is fascinating and something I've wondered about. It'd make for an interesting study, and actually, I wonder if you know about any research that has been done on this subject. I'd be curious to know if the data backs up the intuition!

I don't know of any research; I base this statement purely on the intuition that piano shouldn't feel this natural to me. Typing itself could account for it, but I think Emacs has more piano-like dexterity requirements than typing in general. Another variable is that while I had't played the piano in a long time, I have done other musical things, and so just being a better, more experienced musician could also have an influence.

Re: In Praise of Chorded Input

#33

Post by clarry »

falcolas wrote: post #21
Timpy wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't doubt the report that Wrona is using caps lock instead of shift, but it baffles me. How did he manage to make that faster? I only use left shift, which is pretty similar except he has to hit twice as many keys to accomplish the same thing.

I've mucked around with it, so speaking only from that mucking it offers two things: Your hand is not anchored to the shift button. You can use one finger for the first press of capslock, and another for the second, based on where the previous and next letters are (this is a reference to the typist using any finger to hit any letter). Using shift is still three actions: for the shift button it's a press and hold foll…

Better compromise is sticky shift for when you just need to capitalize one letter. Then it's just press press.

Re: In Praise of Chorded Input

#34

Post by clarry »

zzo38computer wrote: post #28
mhd wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Inspired wholesale by the same feature in Oberon. And one of the things that makes me miss proper three button mice.

I also want a proper three button mouse; I don't use the wheel and would rather have three full buttons.

I'd prefer wheel and third button.

I don't understand why mouse buttons need to be so large. Indeed, keys are much smaller, and the thumb buttons in mice are still much smaller. That's not a problem. Every mouse I've had has a comfortable spot between the two main buttons and the wheel where you could fit the third button..

Re: In Praise of Chorded Input

#35

Post by falcolas »

clarry wrote: post #33
falcolas wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've mucked around with it, so speaking only from that mucking it offers two things: Your hand is not anchored to the shift button. You can use one finger for the first press of capslock, and another for the second, based on where the previous and next letters are (this is a reference to the typist using any finger to hit any letter). Using shift is still three actions: for the shift button it's a press and hold foll…

Better compromise is sticky shift for when you just need to capitalize one letter. Then it's just press press.

I would agree, but that's not a feature available by default on most (any?) keyboards. You'd have to enable it via driver software.

Since we're looking at competitive typists (what a world, eh?), they're probably not allowed such things when being measured.

Re: In Praise of Chorded Input

#36

Post by [deleted] »

clarry wrote: post #6

> But it's not just music software: pretty much all the joys I've listed can be used to explain people getting so into learning Vim or Emacs. Eh, the reason why I'm into modal editing is precisely that it doesn't require much chording. That's also why I've configured my keyboard to write all the ascii printable symbols without chording, and shift is sticky so I don't need to chord it to write a capital I. I could ima…

[deleted]

Re: In Praise of Chorded Input

#37

Post by sleepybrett »

derefr wrote: post #22

> Chorded input is rare these days - the movement of software to touchscreen devices argues against it. Multitouch gestures are a form of chorded input, no? And one we’ve greatly under-explored, IMHO. Probably mostly because people tend to be using either touchscreens that are mobile, or touch pads that are rather small, and so you can only fit one hand’s worth of fingers on the digitizer, and one hand’s fingers can’…

There have been a few 'keyboards' over the years that are nothing more than very large touchpads with some raised areas for finding key edges. They have all failed spectacularly. (all the ones i've seen have supported multitouch gestures and tap for type)

Re: In Praise of Chorded Input

#38

Post by trimble_tromble »

derefr wrote: post #22

> Chorded input is rare these days - the movement of software to touchscreen devices argues against it. Multitouch gestures are a form of chorded input, no? And one we’ve greatly under-explored, IMHO. Probably mostly because people tend to be using either touchscreens that are mobile, or touch pads that are rather small, and so you can only fit one hand’s worth of fingers on the digitizer, and one hand’s fingers can’…

A cool chording device designed for single-handed use (and thus ideal for mobile devices) is the Twiddler 3: https://twiddler.tekgear.com/

Re: In Praise of Chorded Input

#39

Post by sleepybrett »

Timpy wrote: post #4

I've been searching relentlessly for a qwerty chording solution that works for me. I was hoping to find something useful here, but there's only a couple of Wikipedia links that I've already scoured through. QMK firmware seems like a good solution, but it's only available on DIY mechanical keyboards or expensive ergonomic keyboards. There are a few hacks out there for other keyboards, but I don't want to brick my dail…

DIY mechanicals are not all that expensive, though there are many components that you can upgrade and add to costs. You do need to know how to solder.. hot swap pcbs exist for sure (allowing you to just push keys into the pads) but they do cost a bit more.

That said, the type of soldering required is quite easy and if you have a friend with a decent iron and some time they can teach you the required skill quite quickly.

Re: In Praise of Chorded Input

#40

Post by Timpy »

falcolas wrote: post #21
Timpy wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't doubt the report that Wrona is using caps lock instead of shift, but it baffles me. How did he manage to make that faster? I only use left shift, which is pretty similar except he has to hit twice as many keys to accomplish the same thing.

I've mucked around with it, so speaking only from that mucking it offers two things: Your hand is not anchored to the shift button. You can use one finger for the first press of capslock, and another for the second, based on where the previous and next letters are (this is a reference to the typist using any finger to hit any letter). Using shift is still three actions: for the shift button it's a press and hold foll…

I don't buy this answer. If the shift button is three actions then the capslock is four.

Shift: Press -> hold -> release

Lock: Press -> release -> press -> release

Both cases require timing. I'm not convinced he's faster because of capslock, he seems to be faster in spite of it.

I also use a hybrid typing style. For example, the word "server". The first time I strike the "e" with my middle finger and the second "e" is with my ring finger, freeing my middle finger to type the final "r" because my index finger is still at the lower row after typing "v". Surely he uses this style of non-traditional touch typing for words like "Azure, Qatar, Zaire," but I think the flexibility of finger choice is the secret to success, not the capslock key.

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