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Clojure: A Lisp that wants to spread

simongray.github.io

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Re: Clojure: A Lisp that wants to spread

#2

Post by lbj »

Thats last few sentences make no sense. The argument is that uptake is stunted by the JVM's slow startup time, making it unsuitable for commandline utils or desktop apps. However thats easily fixed which was never more hillariously stated than when Rich Hickey did it a decade ago. A blogpost went viral and it was a thunderous critique of Clojure, focused on this single point of slow start up. In the comment section was only 1 reply from Rich:

time java -client -jar clojure.jar helloworld.clj

> system time 0.0001s

The -client param makes all the difference :)

Re: Clojure: A Lisp that wants to spread

#3

Post by simongray »

lbj wrote: post #2

Thats last few sentences make no sense. The argument is that uptake is stunted by the JVM's slow startup time, making it unsuitable for commandline utils or desktop apps. However thats easily fixed which was never more hillariously stated than when Rich Hickey did it a decade ago. A blogpost went viral and it was a thunderous critique of Clojure, focused on this single point of slow start up. In the comment section w…

This is what I am referring to: http://clojure-goes-fast.com/blog/clojures-slow-start/

> As it turns out, Clojure start time is a complicated and multi-dimensional topic. Clojure projects are slow to start not only because of JVM — JVM itself starts in ~50 ms — but because of JVM specifics the classes are loaded slowly. Clojure projects are slow to start not only because of Clojure — Clojure itself starts in ~1 second — but because of Clojure specifics, the namespaces, especially not AOT-compiled one, are loaded slowly. And so on.

Re: Clojure: A Lisp that wants to spread

#5

Post by michaelmrose »

lbj wrote: post #2

Thats last few sentences make no sense. The argument is that uptake is stunted by the JVM's slow startup time, making it unsuitable for commandline utils or desktop apps. However thats easily fixed which was never more hillariously stated than when Rich Hickey did it a decade ago. A blogpost went viral and it was a thunderous critique of Clojure, focused on this single point of slow start up. In the comment section w…

Running a simple cli application written in clojure with the help switch ensuring it doesn't do much beyond print text.

With and without -client 1 second

Built with graal 22 ms

Re: Clojure: A Lisp that wants to spread

#6

Post by finalfantasia »

lbj wrote: post #2

Thats last few sentences make no sense. The argument is that uptake is stunted by the JVM's slow startup time, making it unsuitable for commandline utils or desktop apps. However thats easily fixed which was never more hillariously stated than when Rich Hickey did it a decade ago. A blogpost went viral and it was a thunderous critique of Clojure, focused on this single point of slow start up. In the comment section w…

According to the latest status update from a member of the Clojure core team [1], we may see improvements in startup time with the next version of Clojure (1.11).

[1] https://insideclojure.org/2020/02/28/journal/

Re: Clojure: A Lisp that wants to spread

#7

Post by rubyn00bie »

lbj wrote: post #2

Thats last few sentences make no sense. The argument is that uptake is stunted by the JVM's slow startup time, making it unsuitable for commandline utils or desktop apps. However thats easily fixed which was never more hillariously stated than when Rich Hickey did it a decade ago. A blogpost went viral and it was a thunderous critique of Clojure, focused on this single point of slow start up. In the comment section w…

For anyone else wondering, "holy crap, WTF does -client do?" here you go: https://stackoverflow.com/a/198651/931209

And to save folks a click:

> The Client VM compiler does not try to execute many of the more complex optimizations performed by the compiler in the Server VM, but in exchange, it requires less time to analyze and compile a piece of code. This means the Client VM can start up faster and requires a smaller memory footprint.

There's literally so many just insane things about the JVM and its variants, I totally get why some folks are like "JAVA OR DEATH." I just wish I had started learning it 20 years ago, like a lot of 'em, so it wasn't such a gigantic wall of pedantic knowledge to acquire.

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