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New report on the cellular effects of a calorie-restricted diet in rats

salk.edu

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Re: New report on the cellular effects of a calorie-restricted diet in rats

#71
post #55

I wish that it was possible to do a caloric restriction study on people who work out. I spent most of my 20s eating roughly twice as much as average and hitting the gym 3-4 times per week and I never felt better, especially after 20 rep squat sessions that naturally raise hormones like testosterone and HGH. I occasionally cut calories to lose weight or train my metabolism to be "ready" for emergency situations (which…

Seems to me like working out you just naturally need more calories. So it's the same thing - you use more calories than you eat. Like how Michael Phelps are something ridiculous like 10,000 calories a day while training.

You can eat like a pig and perform de facto caloric restriction if you work out hard enough. No need to subscribe to whatever diet religion is in vogue on instagram; just burn more calories than you take in and you will loose weight. It's a basic physics equation.

Re: New report on the cellular effects of a calorie-restricted diet in rats

#72

I don't think I'm mentally capable of following this kind of diet for a very long time. It just makes you hungry and less productive. It also weakens you in terms of physical strength.

That's why I go to gym at least 3 times a week. I build muscle to increase my "static" calories burn - and obviously burn calories while lifting weight. I kicked sugar as well.

Re: New report on the cellular effects of a calorie-restricted diet in rats

#74
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Totally agree. Each diet may affect different pathways; we probably want to engage in all of them to a degree. Recently I have been pondering how we should eat if higher protein increases all-cause mortality and higher carb diets increase all-cause mortality, so I've come up with my seasonality hypothesis: basically we would experience periods of lower carb or lower protein diets historically, which would engage each…

While you are possibly correct that those may be somewhat realistic historic diets, why do you think they would be favorable to a longer, healthier life? Evolution doesn't generally optimize for longevity, it only optimizes for reproduction. The lifespan of most animals in the wild is much shorter than what can be achieved with a carefully controlled diet.

Humans have a long childhood and even the availability of the grandparents can increase the chances of survival of the child. So we adapted to live longer.

Re: New report on the cellular effects of a calorie-restricted diet in rats

#75
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This actually isn’t entirely true. You’re operating under the “energy in-energy out” theory of weight loss, but human regulation of body fat is more complicated than that. Specifically, we store energy in adipose tissue in the form of body fat after a meal (think of it like storing data on disk) and then when we are low on energy we burn that fat (load that data “in-memory”). However, a lot regulates when we burn fat…

> You’re operating under the “energy in-energy out” theory of weight loss, but human regulation of body fat is more complicated than that. I hear the "energy in-energy out" being dismissed like this often, and while I do agree with you that our bodies are more complex than that, I want to say that in practice this adage more or less just works, indeed to the degree that it's valuable to have in common knowledge to in…

with high insulin, doing this nearly guarantees that your body will pull the calories from muscle tissue, versus pulling them from fat. So you can end up sabotaging your efforts.

Re: New report on the cellular effects of a calorie-restricted diet in rats

#76

Since people are sharing anecdotes I might as well share mine. I’ve personally tried IF, keto, calorie counting, and various combinations of all three. I’ve only ever lost weight when doing some form of calorie counting, and since that’s easiest for me without putting other restrictions on my diet, I’ve settled on just tracking calories long term.

I have a lot of success with high fat / high protein diets because they let me function better with lower calories. I subscribe to the church of keto / slow carb in broad strokes. I think there is a hormonal element that we don’t fully appreciate that relates to our ability to lose weight effectively. My frustration with pure calories in / calories out is the rumination I do with how much calories we really extract f…

From what I understand, 100 calories of bacon and 100 calories of sugar is the same. Though there are other compounds in those that may trigger effects in your body.

That said, how calories are measured is from an average approximation. It is true that different people may yield slightly more or less calories from the same foods. Calories are what your body extracts from the food post digestion.

That said, I've never seen strong indicators that the maximum and minimum are that far apart. So it could be that you are a huge outlier and your body extracts way more calories from food A then the average person, or way less. But I think those chances are slim, that is, for you to be such an outlier.

Re: New report on the cellular effects of a calorie-restricted diet in rats

#77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To echo other replies, ketogenic and other diets diets with specific protocols (IF) do work, but primarily for behavioral reasons. That is, you’re just not that hungry. Or if you eliminate an entire meal (IF), you ”save” a ton of calories. Yes there are subtleties around actual macronutrient composition and gut flora, but the effect appears to be minimal. Find a keto person eating 5000 calories of bacon per day and I…

This actually isn’t entirely true. You’re operating under the “energy in-energy out” theory of weight loss, but human regulation of body fat is more complicated than that. Specifically, we store energy in adipose tissue in the form of body fat after a meal (think of it like storing data on disk) and then when we are low on energy we burn that fat (load that data “in-memory”). However, a lot regulates when we burn fat…

So, yes and no. That's why I said "primarily." It's wayyyyy more complicated than calories-in vs calories-out. But 90% of it does come down to that. More importantly though, you need to define what "calories-in" means.

I like to think of a silly extreme. If I drink a gallon of gasoline, I've technically consumed what, a billion calories? But I won't gain a single gram.[1] Why? There's no metabolic pathway to convert gasoline to ATP.

If you take that silly example and moderate it, you can see how different factors, including genetics, gut flora, adaptation, etc could affect what is even processed and thus part of the "in" variable.

More concrete, well known examples:

- If you consume 5000 calories of just protein, the metabolic pathway to convert to lipids is extremely inefficient. You will mostly excrete the excess. - Similar with pure ethanol. If you drank just alcohol (and nothing else), there is no metabolic pathway to convert this to fat. - Even carbs. If you just ate 5000 calories of pure carbs, de novo lipogenesis (metabolic pathway for carbs -> fat) is rather inefficient. You will gain weight but less than the 5000 - expenditure. A lot of it is burnt off as heat. - Sadly, for ketoers: the dietary fat to lipid pathway is extremely efficient. Almost 90% of excess will be stored as fat.[2]

See a pattern here? The reality of the typical diet is that we don't just eat one macronutrient. We mix them. And specific ratios are what make food hyper palatable and thus so easy to overeat. Once you start mixing things up, it basically - and I mean basically - comes down to calories in vs calories out.

[1] In fact, I would likely die. [2] As another commenter mentioned, there was one guy who just ate fat and well in excess of his BMR and apparently lost weight. I'm skeptical, but could believe it simply because it follows the trend: consuming just one can "bend" the rules.

Re: New report on the cellular effects of a calorie-restricted diet in rats

#78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This actually isn’t entirely true. You’re operating under the “energy in-energy out” theory of weight loss, but human regulation of body fat is more complicated than that. Specifically, we store energy in adipose tissue in the form of body fat after a meal (think of it like storing data on disk) and then when we are low on energy we burn that fat (load that data “in-memory”). However, a lot regulates when we burn fat…

So, yes and no. That's why I said "primarily." It's wayyyyy more complicated than calories-in vs calories-out. But 90% of it does come down to that. More importantly though, you need to define what "calories-in" means. I like to think of a silly extreme. If I drink a gallon of gasoline, I've technically consumed what, a billion calories? But I won't gain a single gram.[1] Why? There's no metabolic pathway to convert…

Would be curious about the evidence you have that dietary fat is stored as (noticeable) body fat? 70% of the body is fat. Specifically, what evidence is there that dietary fat stored in a way that makes it so that it appears as noticeable body fat and causes meaningful weight gain?

Re: New report on the cellular effects of a calorie-restricted diet in rats

#79
Original title: “Eat less, live longer Salk scientists show how caloric restriction prevents negative effects of aging in cells”

What it should have been: Are you a lab rat? Eat less, live longer! Salk scientists show how caloric restriction prevents negative effects of aging in cells of rats

Re: New report on the cellular effects of a calorie-restricted diet in rats

#80
post #60
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The easiest way I found to stay on a diet as a lifestyle (instead of dieting for a bit and then stopping and regaining the weight) is alternate day fasting. I found I can't just decide never again to eat the things I like and never again feel sated. Feeling hungry constantly isn't exactly my idea for the rest of my life. Alternate day fasting lets me survive a day with no calories knowing that the next day I can be s…

So are you saying that you continually eat only every other day? Or is this just something you do time to time? Curious as much as anything. How long have you been doing this?

I have lost 25kg (55 pounds) over a course of a year. Half of that was intermittent fasting (one day eating for about 10 hours, then no calories for the rest, about 38 hours) but accounts for 3/4 of results.

When not eating I would not eat or drink anything that has any calories in it. I typically drink water, black coffee or green tea.

I have also tried longer fasts from time to time (2-7 days typically, 2 weeks once) and then I would supplement with vitamins, l-tryptophan and lean broth/bone broth in moderate quantities (a cup a day), just for safety and general well-being (l-tryptophan is precursor to serotonin and mildly anti-depressant).

Intermittent fasting is hard at the beginning but after about 2 weeks I get used to new regime. It seems it is the same every time I start it anew. It might be getting easier but I think that's because I already know what to expect.

Also, when intermittent fasting it is much easier to start longer fast. I find, when fasting for more than 2 days first two days to be the hardest.

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