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New report on the cellular effects of a calorie-restricted diet in rats

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Re: New report on the cellular effects of a calorie-restricted diet in rats

#21
post #8

I have read that calorie restriction can "reset" the immune system. How do you eat calorie restricted diet without getting very thin? If you eat 30% less than you should calories do you not eventually get so thin that you die from under nutrition?

It was 30% below a "normal diet" (presumably some reference diet for lab rats), not 30% below maintenance. Weight loss wouldn't continue indefinitely.

Re: New report on the cellular effects of a calorie-restricted diet in rats

#22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you do something hard if we could make it easy?

I don't think the motive is to make it easy. I think the motive is to make it highly profitable for someone.

I feel like both can be true – the motivation here is likely to both solve a real problem (aging and all that's associated with it) and to make some profit as a result.

This is ultimately a product like any other. Like a SaaS product making any hard process easy, you wouldn't expect the solution to be wholly free. People would still have the option to take a different route (caloric restriction) to accomplish the same, but it's clear many people struggle with that.

Re: New report on the cellular effects of a calorie-restricted diet in rats

#23

Do we actually know whether these effects are triggered by calorie restriction in general, as opposed to restriction of some specific nutrient that's happening incidentally to the calorie restriction protocol? I seem to remember some reports from ~10 years ago that protein restriction, and possibly even restriction of specific amino acids, has shown similar effects.

I think it’s very clear that is the calorie restriction that’s increasing lifespan. It’s worked across many studies on almost every organism tested

Re: New report on the cellular effects of a calorie-restricted diet in rats

#24

“This gives us targets that we may eventually be able to act on with drugs to treat aging in humans.” Oy. Why do we do this nonsense? Why can't it just be research that helps us better understand how to eat healthy? /pet peeve

Because eating healthy is not a full solution to aging, and we can do much better.

Would you rather we don't have medication for (type II) diabetes and instead just went around telling people to eat better?

Re: New report on the cellular effects of a calorie-restricted diet in rats

#25

I've done strict calorie tracking for restriction, keto as well as IF. The best I've ever felt was keto, the easiest for me to adhere to was calorie tracking. It's marginally harder if you eat out a lot, but if you cook for yourself and can throw everything on a food scale for a week or so until you get an idea of what's servings of your most commonly-eaten foods looks like, tracking calories made losing weight for m…

The easiest way I found to stay on a diet as a lifestyle (instead of dieting for a bit and then stopping and regaining the weight) is alternate day fasting.

I found I can't just decide never again to eat the things I like and never again feel sated. Feeling hungry constantly isn't exactly my idea for the rest of my life.

Alternate day fasting lets me survive a day with no calories knowing that the next day I can be sated and eat (almost) whatever I want.

I have also found that when I eat every other day I put much more attention to what I eat on those days -- I mean, if I just did not eat yesterday and I won't eat tomorrow I want to eat well today. Even if I am going to eat sweets -- I will try to go for something better and not feed myself with garbage.

I also found that alternate day fasting is good willpower training. Being able to restrict myself from eating for an entire day somehow trains me to be better at other things that require willpower.

Re: New report on the cellular effects of a calorie-restricted diet in rats

#26
post #4

Somewhat tangential. I often see people treating different diet restrictions that make you healthier as if they were competitors. Low carb/high fat, versus low calories, versus intermittent fasting. They imagine the different orientations as startups in a winner-takes-all market and pump their preferred one against the others. I think a better way to frame a healthy diet is that you should aim to follow all three and…

Totally agree. Each diet may affect different pathways; we probably want to engage in all of them to a degree.

Recently I have been pondering how we should eat if higher protein increases all-cause mortality and higher carb diets increase all-cause mortality, so I've come up with my seasonality hypothesis: basically we would experience periods of lower carb or lower protein diets historically, which would engage each of these various beneficial pathways we have.

For instance, and this is my hypothesis: we wouldn't eat wooly mammoth for breakfast lunch and dinner every day, we would eat nothing but it for three days, once a month. Dense carbs would come sporadically ("yay, we found a bee hive" twice a year) and fruits (carbs) would blossom in either only spring or fall.

Re: New report on the cellular effects of a calorie-restricted diet in rats

#27
post #4

Somewhat tangential. I often see people treating different diet restrictions that make you healthier as if they were competitors. Low carb/high fat, versus low calories, versus intermittent fasting. They imagine the different orientations as startups in a winner-takes-all market and pump their preferred one against the others. I think a better way to frame a healthy diet is that you should aim to follow all three and…

I agree, there's different strategies for different scenarios. However your 3 scenarios don't take into account highly active people who are in shape. When losing fat, I ate less carbs, and did intermittent fasting. But once I had built muscle and kept exercising I need those carbs as short-term energy. Carbs are fuel, if you're not exercising you don't need much fuel, and can probably run on your fat reserves. I'm o…

Another thing to consider is that everyone are different. Some respond well on low-carb even when building muscle, while it never work for others.

Re: New report on the cellular effects of a calorie-restricted diet in rats

#28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have any formal education on this topic, but I did lose a bunch of weight and keep it off, partly thru intermittent fasting, so I can offer anecdotal evidence. For me, simply, it's easier to eat less calories if I intermittent fast. For some reason, if I don't eat breakfast or lunch, I find my hunger is actually sometimes lower , and I don't need to eat a bigger dinner to make up for it. Certainly eating low-…

Eat less & eat often - doctor recommended me once. And its works fine. He also said fasting and "don't eat breakfast or lunch" are destructive, regular feeding matters.

Coming from a fasting fanatic, eating often but less can work for some people, but I don't think it works well for people who need to lose weight, whom make up a significant portion of the population. If you eat a small amount but eat often, you're less likely to put yourself into autophagy where your body will actually be using an appreciable amount of body fat to power itself. In order for a "grazing" diet to work for weight loss, people have to burn excess calories through exercising or eat very minimally. The average person won't keep up exercising for very long, especially when they aren't eating food that will give them the explosive energy that they need, and eating lots of low calorie food ends up making people miserable and causes yo-yo dieting.

There's nothing destructive about fasting, as long as the person isn't starving. A lot of people confuse fasting with starvation, but they're not the same thing. Body fat is food. As long as you have fat to burn, you're not starving. Few people are going to starve doing even 72 hour long fasts. The human body just doesn't require that many nutrients on an hourly basis. You won't die or get hurt by not eating kale for a few days.

It was common wisdom that skipping a meal was destructive, but it's becoming more accepted that it simply isn't true. It doesn't really make sense that we require the sheer amounts of food that we're eating on a regular basis. Most omnivores and carnivores aren't eating the equivalent of 3 meals a day, and are effectively practicing some form of fasting. If we're supposed to not skip breakfast, then all our ancestors must have been pretty unhealthy, yet fossil evidence doesn't really demonstrate this.

A grazing type diet can be perfectly fine for someone at a healthy weight, but they're not really benefiting from it in any way besides the enjoyment of eating. Even so, it depends on what the person is eating in the first place. If someone eats toast with jelly for breakfast, it's highly questionable whether they're getting any long term health benefit from that at all.

There's a plethora of information about this subject, and I don't have the time to cite it all here. I encourage you to update your knowledge here. Most general practitioners aren't well educated in nutrition, nor are they versed in the latest research, so your doctor may be operating on old wisdom that hasn't panned out.

Re: New report on the cellular effects of a calorie-restricted diet in rats

#29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you do something hard if we could make it easy?

I don't think the motive is to make it easy. I think the motive is to make it highly profitable for someone.

Making hard things easy can be lucrative. Markets work because they align incentives like that.

Re: New report on the cellular effects of a calorie-restricted diet in rats

#30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have any formal education on this topic, but I did lose a bunch of weight and keep it off, partly thru intermittent fasting, so I can offer anecdotal evidence. For me, simply, it's easier to eat less calories if I intermittent fast. For some reason, if I don't eat breakfast or lunch, I find my hunger is actually sometimes lower , and I don't need to eat a bigger dinner to make up for it. Certainly eating low-…

Eat less & eat often - doctor recommended me once. And its works fine. He also said fasting and "don't eat breakfast or lunch" are destructive, regular feeding matters.

Note: that advice is countered by modern nutrition that sees insulin spikes and serum insulin as a bad thing.
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