Coronavirus information and extenuating circumstances policy • Hacker News Board

Re: Coronavirus information and extenuating circumstances policy

#41

Post by DyslexicAtheist » Sun, Mar 01, 2020, 4:16 PM UTC

agumonkey wrote: post #16

Where's the alexa plugin that infers your covid19 status based on the sound of your voice, breathing, coughing and internet queries for medicine and things you can binge watch for a month ?

> things you can binge watch for a month?

this should get you through March :) ...

The Seventh Seal (1957) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0050976/

The Last Man on Earth (1964) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0058700/

The Omega Man (1971) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0067525/

The Andromeda Strain (1971) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0066769/

Dawn of the Dead (1978) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0077402/

Outbreak (1995) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0114069/

12 Monkeys (1995) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0114746/

Cabin Fever (2002) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0303816/

Resident Evil (2002) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120804/

28 Days Later (2003) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0289043/

Children of Men (2006) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0206634/

28 Weeks Later (2007) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0463854/

I Am Legend (2007) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0480249/

Blindness (2008) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0861689/

Carriers (2009) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0806203/

Daybreakers (2009) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0433362/

Black Death (2010) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1181791/

Contagion (2011) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1598778/

Maze Runner: The Death Cure (2011) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt4500922/

World War Z (2013) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0816711/

Maggie (2015) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1881002/

Train to Busan (2016) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt5700672/

The Girl With All The Gifts (2016) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt4547056/

93 Days (2016) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt5305246/

Cargo (2017) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt3860916/

It Comes At Night (2017) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt4695012/

Rabid (2019) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt5628902/

The Hot Zone (2019) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt4131818/

edit: There is actually a Wikipedia page for the genre (duh!): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Films_about_viral_out...

Re: Coronavirus information and extenuating circumstances policy

#42

Post by sarchertech » Sun, Mar 01, 2020, 4:16 PM UTC

simonh wrote: post #14

londons_explore wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have we tried though? How about the old-fashioned techniques of "culture a load of the virus, then either cook it or put it in a nuclear reactor for a bit to kill it, and then inject it into people"?

Yes a lot of effort has gone into developing treatments. The term vaccine is often used in the press to refer to all sorts of different treatments, such as anti-viral drugs. Actual vaccines are tricky, we know a lot about influenzas for example and have a wide variety of the viruses to study and experiment with and understand how to develop vaccines against new strains pretty quickly. There has never been a successfu…

We had candidates for SARS but it was contained before trials began.

Coronavirus is generally too mild and there are too many varieties to worry about developing vaccines for them. It's not that they are particularly hard to develop a vaccine for.

Re: Coronavirus information and extenuating circumstances policy

#43

Post by AnthonyMouse » Sun, Mar 01, 2020, 4:19 PM UTC

dragonwriter wrote: post #30

mlthoughts2018 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you mean corporations display an exaggerated sense of self-entitlement, and by not making full refunds easy and well-understood, they create these negative externalities. Asking individuals to bear the financial risk related to these types of emergencies seems wrong to me on all levels, moral, pragmatism, effectiveness, social fairness, etc. These types of risks should be borne by corporations in the form of…

Corporations are people. Not just legally people, which they are, but in plain fact they are legal fictions which are wrapped around the actions of people.

I don't understand why people have such a hard time with that.

If Airbnb cancels the reservation, the person renting out the room has an empty room and doesn't get paid. The housekeeper they hire to clean up after each guest doesn't get hired. The guy in the sandwich cart the guest would have bought from doesn't get paid. The corporation doesn't make a profit from the transaction (that was the one we're supposed to want, right?), but that wasn't most of the price to begin with, and the profits go to "shareholders" which are mostly the retirement accounts of ordinary people.

They should cancel it anyway.

Re: Coronavirus information and extenuating circumstances policy

#44

Post by ghaff » Sun, Mar 01, 2020, 4:19 PM UTC

maxerickson wrote: post #39

mlthoughts2018 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you mean corporations display an exaggerated sense of self-entitlement, and by not making full refunds easy and well-understood, they create these negative externalities. Asking individuals to bear the financial risk related to these types of emergencies seems wrong to me on all levels, moral, pragmatism, effectiveness, social fairness, etc. These types of risks should be borne by corporations in the form of…

The costs of the cancellations may exceed the profits of the company (In which case it's still appropriate for investors to take the loss, I'm just pointing out that there's a wider range of possibilities). Or the pricing of refundable tickets vs non-refundable tickets. It turns out if you agree to take on the risk of cancellation, most corporations are willing to give you a lower price on the ticket. Constraining th…

There are some kinds of trips where there's no real option to book in a way that you can cancel a week before the trip. But, by and large, you can book flexibly if you're willing to pay the premium. I'm not sure it's usually worth it in the case of airline tickets given that flexible tickets are often 2x and you can usually cancel for a $250 or so fee. But hotels usually have flexible rates for a 10% to 20% upcharge. That's what I usually do anyway (it's work travel policy) and it's certainly what I'm doing over the coming months.

Re: Coronavirus information and extenuating circumstances policy

#45

Post by ghaff » Sun, Mar 01, 2020, 4:22 PM UTC

entwife wrote: post #20

I'm traveling in Seattle, where as of this morning the health department has confirmed 6 cases of coronavirus of which only one was a recent traveler to China.[0] I would appreciate the ability to cancel a reservation if I feel sick, especially at a reservation with a shared bathroom. [0] https://www.doh.wa.gov/Emergencies/Coronavirus

>I would appreciate the ability to cancel a reservation if I feel sick

You always have the ability to cancel a reservation. You may just not get refunded.

Re: Coronavirus information and extenuating circumstances policy

#46

Post by snackematician » Sun, Mar 01, 2020, 4:23 PM UTC

Retric wrote: post #18

jpxw wrote: post #4

If you’re in a major city, this is the time to start taking preventative measures. Avoid mass gatherings and public transport if you can.

There are 70 known cases of Coronavirus in the US. Making precautions at this point is reasonable, going to extremes is not. My suggestion is to prepare for the possibility of major disruption starting 2 to 6 months from now. Avoid non refundable trips etc.

> My suggestion is to prepare for the possibility of major disruption starting 2 to 6 months from now.

This is too optimistic. We're currently in the exponential growth phase of this outbreak. Things can change rapidly, much sooner than 2-6 months.

Self-interest aside, it's a moral imperative to do what we can to slow the spread of this outbreak. The mortality rate for COVID19 is highly correlated with overburdening of the healthcare system. I fear the US healthcare system is woefully unprepared.

Re: Coronavirus information and extenuating circumstances policy

#47

Post by sjg007 » Sun, Mar 01, 2020, 4:28 PM UTC

graeme wrote: post #21

heligate229 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't overemphasised. The fine print of the travel insurance is very important! However, I don't get why cancellation policies will be a major reason of the spread. Your explanation on sunk cost fallacy and cancellation seems to be missing. Airbnb has a clause to refund under "Epidemic disease or illness"

The link says you can only automatically cancel for mainland china and korean trips. So any trips to Italy, Iran, Washington State etc can’t be refunded. It encourages people to still go. Sunk cost fallacy: people might not take a free trip to italy now, but they may go if they previously paid for one.

I would be surprised if Airbnb does business in Iran...

Re: Coronavirus information and extenuating circumstances policy

#48

Post by xiphias2 » Sun, Mar 01, 2020, 4:40 PM UTC

graeme wrote: post #21

heligate229 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't overemphasised. The fine print of the travel insurance is very important! However, I don't get why cancellation policies will be a major reason of the spread. Your explanation on sunk cost fallacy and cancellation seems to be missing. Airbnb has a clause to refund under "Epidemic disease or illness"

The link says you can only automatically cancel for mainland china and korean trips. So any trips to Italy, Iran, Washington State etc can’t be refunded. It encourages people to still go. Sunk cost fallacy: people might not take a free trip to italy now, but they may go if they previously paid for one.

Ticket prices are getting lower to Italy, and I see more and more articles that this is the best time to go to vacation because it's so cheap. People don't care about spreading the virus, because they don't care about other people.

The only way to be protected is to stay home and not follow the herd.

Re: Coronavirus information and extenuating circumstances policy

#49

Post by mlthoughts2018 » Sun, Mar 01, 2020, 4:42 PM UTC

maxerickson wrote: post #39

mlthoughts2018 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you mean corporations display an exaggerated sense of self-entitlement, and by not making full refunds easy and well-understood, they create these negative externalities. Asking individuals to bear the financial risk related to these types of emergencies seems wrong to me on all levels, moral, pragmatism, effectiveness, social fairness, etc. These types of risks should be borne by corporations in the form of…

The costs of the cancellations may exceed the profits of the company (In which case it's still appropriate for investors to take the loss, I'm just pointing out that there's a wider range of possibilities). Or the pricing of refundable tickets vs non-refundable tickets. It turns out if you agree to take on the risk of cancellation, most corporations are willing to give you a lower price on the ticket. Constraining th…

> “ It turns out if you agree to take on the risk of cancellation”

This is a common fallacy that we can use the pricing mechanism to account for the risk. But whether it’s food poisoning (cheaper prices for expired goods), labor externalities (cheaper prices for goods made with slave / child / exploitative labor), or geopolitical risks (cheaper prices for travel that can be cancelled for reasons that regular citizens simply cannot adequately prepare for), across the board it’s a failed idea.

The information asymmetries and burdens are simply too lopsided against regular consumers. Pricing as information aggregation (thus reflecting correct understanding of risks impounded in prices) is not a thing. It is theorized but fails to exist.

And risks of insolvency are far worse for individuals than for corporations, on multiple levels.

Re: Coronavirus information and extenuating circumstances policy

#50

Post by ghaff » Sun, Mar 01, 2020, 4:43 PM UTC

graeme wrote: post #21

heligate229 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't overemphasised. The fine print of the travel insurance is very important! However, I don't get why cancellation policies will be a major reason of the spread. Your explanation on sunk cost fallacy and cancellation seems to be missing. Airbnb has a clause to refund under "Epidemic disease or illness"

The link says you can only automatically cancel for mainland china and korean trips. So any trips to Italy, Iran, Washington State etc can’t be refunded. It encourages people to still go. Sunk cost fallacy: people might not take a free trip to italy now, but they may go if they previously paid for one.

I'm not sure that qualifies as a sunk cost fallacy. Most people have limited budgets for vacations. If they already booked a trip to someplace and cancel it without a refund, they may not be able to afford going somewhere else. On the other hand, if they haven't booked anything they can go somewhere that's of perceived lower risk or just hold off for the time being.