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The Two Middle Classes

quillette.com

41–50 of 88 posts

Re: The Two Middle Classes

#41
From the article:

> A remarkable 57 percent of people who owned their own home supported Johnson compared to barely 22 percent for Labour.

This analysis is deeply superficial. Let me suggest a trivial alternative to the suggested interpretation: that people are more likely to own a home as they grow older, and that the primary division between Conservative and Labour voters in the last election was by age.

e.g. https://twitter.com/drmuig/status/1205796472194830336

Now, my writing this doesn't prove my claim, but I've already demonstrated an alternative take on political "allegiance" that seems at least as likely as the groupings suggested in the article.

It's lovely to wave one's hands around like this Quillette article does, painting broad strokes and telling big stories. But the handful of citations at the end do almost nothing to prop up his story, which while not implausible, really needs more substantial evidence to make it believable.

Re: The Two Middle Classes

#42
post #40
post #19

The "class of public intellectuals" that Quillete likens to the Second Estate largely parallels the formation of the nomenklatura in the Soviet Union: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nomenklatura A more cynical, but illuminating, depiction of the way this class came to be recognized and criticized was given in an old New Yorker article about why Americans don't like Hillary Clinton -- from 1996 : https://www.newyorker.c…

This is a great addition to the discussion, thanks for the links to the additional papers.

Of course the motivation for your comment is easy to deduce. It's okay, WalterBright gets downvoted sometimes too.

I assume I am being downvoted because I didn't read far enough to hear the author pivot into a tangent about green energy (which was apparently wrong, and which seems to be everyone else's focus). While Quillette's mission to highlight well-formed ideas that are unpopular may seem admirable, it cannot escape the fact that most people simply don't like to make public statements — which means that people who want to talk for the wrong reason are over-represented, no matter your ideology.

I just had a serious case of "read this one before" syndrome and I think both of those links are enlightening (and less distracted).

Re: The Two Middle Classes

#43
Think of two middle-classes like Industrial vs Tech. The atoms world of America is a world of decline and tech for now is on ascendance. That will not continue perpetually, sooner or later the tech boom will end and re-industrialization of US will begin. But that will need us going through lot of pain, suffering and healing.

Re: The Two Middle Classes

#44

This article is a bit confused. It pits the left and right middle classes against each other and also against the oligarchy, and then brings up how Trump stands against the left middle class without mentioning how much he represents and supports the oligarchy that systematically takes advantage of both the right and the left. It also tries to cast the left middle class as allies of the oligarchy by bringing populist…

It’s interesting the way you equate fossil fuels with scarcity and renewable energy with abundance, when renewables are still a tiny minority of the world energy supply. In reality, it’s fossil fuels that allow for energy abundance, while the movement to transition to renewables is accompanied by energy austerity: less driving, less air travel, less meat consumption.

Re: The Two Middle Classes

#45
The article claims the surprise result of the last Australian election as a rejection of action to limit greenhouse gas emissions. The consensus in Australia is that people simply didn't like the leader of the opposition as a TV personality. Also, Australian attitudes to climate change have been rather dramatically modified by events since that election.

Re: The Two Middle Classes

#46
I was expecting a piece covering the growing gap between the traditional middle class, which seems to be falling, and the upper-middle class, which seems to be doing better in recent decades.

Instead, what we have is a attempt to separate out the middle class into left and right sections. I don't really see it.

> No president has ever incurred the wrath of the clerisy—the media, the entertainment industry, academia—more than Donald Trump. But Trump retains record support among the small business people on Main Street, particularly in the manufacturing and energy-dependent parts of the country.

Perhaps the author has failed to see the split between "mainstream" media and right-wing media over the last decade, and the massive reach the right-wing media has these days - with the largest cable news shows, the largest radio news/commentary shows, and frequently the most interactions on social media. One could reasonably conclude there is a "right" clerisy, with academia replaced by think-tanks, that is very competitive with the "left" version he defines, though this might cause problems with his entire premise.

> The climatistas’ appeal is not likely to improve as they increasingly advocate the elimination of ownership of single-family houses...

Ah yes, the proposals of a single random professor does seem like a good representation of a "climate-friendly density regime".

There's other issues to pick at with this piece ("ultra-green policies", climate policy supported by oligarchs, etc.), but I think it's better to point to someone who covers the same issues to some degree in more convincing manner.

https://mattstoller.substack.com/

Stoller takes a look at the current state of the economy through the lens of monopoly and big business, and I find his analysis to match the world I see with much greater accuracy. Kotkin mentions a lot of the issues in his section on "the embattled yeomanry", but fails to consider causes that lead to this. He'll talk about concentration of wealth, but fails to conclude any negative effects it might have. And it's truly curious how he moves from increasing corporate concentration in one paragraph to fighting against climate policy in the next.

Re: The Two Middle Classes

#47
post #4

It describes a part of the middle class that gets its income from the market and another part that gets its income from non-market sources such as universities and the government and I found it a useful lens through which to view current events.

Um middle class university jobs are badly paid compared to professionals working at say a FANG

Almost all jobs are badly paid compared to professionals working at a FAANG

Re: The Two Middle Classes

#48

It's an interesting and somewhat useful take on things, but like a dog wearing pants, things just don't seem to fit very well. First, I do think it's ridiculous that he takes it as a given that Oligarchs favour climate policy. Yes, I can see how someone can point to Musk and .... I dunno Al Gore? and try to make the point, but for every Musk-a-like, there are many dozens of rich people very deeply vested in the fossi…

I just turned on the television for the first time in years. There was an ad from an oil company talking about climate change as if it’s a given, and how they’re taking measures to stop it.

Is the ad superficial, meaningless bullshit? Of course.

But the presence of hypocritical financial interests is irrelevant. Or rather, it supports the thesis that the clerisy are interested in power rather than actual morality.

Regarding the poor academics, the conflict between members of the middle class is the point of the article.

Tenured professors v. adjuncts might be the best possible example of the authors point.

Re: The Two Middle Classes

#49
post #16

It's an interesting and somewhat useful take on things, but like a dog wearing pants, things just don't seem to fit very well. First, I do think it's ridiculous that he takes it as a given that Oligarchs favour climate policy. Yes, I can see how someone can point to Musk and .... I dunno Al Gore? and try to make the point, but for every Musk-a-like, there are many dozens of rich people very deeply vested in the fossi…

> First, I do think it's ridiculous that he takes it as a given that Oligarchs favour climate policy. > I don't think any serious survey of the financial interests of the global superrich will support this view. There is a subtlety here - one possible outcome is oligarchs cynically favouring climate policy while simultaneously having deep vested interests in fossil fuels. The article isn't saying that the oligarchs w…

Big companies actively encourage regulation! Notice Facebook lobbying for privacy regulations.

Re: The Two Middle Classes

#50

It's an interesting and somewhat useful take on things, but like a dog wearing pants, things just don't seem to fit very well. First, I do think it's ridiculous that he takes it as a given that Oligarchs favour climate policy. Yes, I can see how someone can point to Musk and .... I dunno Al Gore? and try to make the point, but for every Musk-a-like, there are many dozens of rich people very deeply vested in the fossi…

> First, I do think it's ridiculous that he takes it as a given that Oligarchs favour climate policy. Yes, I can see how someone can point to Musk and .... I dunno Al Gore? and try to make the point, but for every Musk-a-like, there are many dozens of rich people very deeply vested in the fossil industry. I don't think any serious survey of the financial interests of the global superrich will support this view.

Name some names

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