Miranda is still taught as a language for University College London's Functional Programming course: https://www.ucl.ac.uk/module-catalogue/modules/functional-pr... Students grumble at having to learn such an esoteric language; the justification of the professor is that it's simpler and more focussed than Haskell and so better for teaching functional concepts. This may be true but perhaps he's just been teaching the…
Miranda released as free software
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Re: Miranda released as free software
#72Earlier quoted context omitted.
"the art of writing compilers and interpreters has effectively been lost" I'm curious, how does that happen? Were the techniques used in compilers and interpreters of yore never recorded for posterity in academic papers or technical documentation?
Spent a good while thinking on your question: The best stuff was all proprietary for decades. Even now, we only got Miranda's source code weeks ago. Miranda was written in the 1980s! It's the same for a lot of languages. Nial's the example I usually bring up for one that was freed far too late. People with the domain knowledge that would have helped deal with the complexity of modern systems are all either retired, h…
1) why miranda was fast itself (was it compiling perf or runtime perf) ?
2) why haskell is so bad .. since miranda lineage with haskell is quite strong, unless SPJ, JH, PW and the likes had zero access to miranda techniques or no legal right to use them.. I fail to see how they made haskell compiler so bad.
Re: Miranda released as free software
#73Here's an idea I have: never close-source any programming language, make 'em free and open from day zero. Languages are not products, but infrastructure, like roads. They benefit and grow from the number of users, not from paywalls. Closed languages tend to fade into obscurity. That's why everyone knows Haskell and nobody knows Miranda, everyone knows Java and nobody Eiffel. I laughed when I read that the author of S…
Haskell was written as academia's response to Miranda's licensing fees. Were Miranda freeware (but not source available or Free Software), it probably would still be well-known. It's still taught in many universities. I certainly agree that most languages should be libre, but clearly it's not necessary for success. k has brought billions of dollars of profit, but is the most proprietary of all languages. C# developer…
> [T]he easiest way to move forward was to begin with an existing language, and evolve it in whatever direction suited us. Of all the lazy languages under development, David Turner’s Miranda was by far the most mature. It was pure, well designed, fulfilled many of our goals, had a robust implementation as a product of Turner’s company, Research Software Ltd, and was running at 120 sites. Turner was not present at the meeting, so we concluded that the first action item of the committee would be to ask Turner if he would allow us to adopt Miranda as the starting point for our new language. After a brief and cordial interchange, Turner declined. His goals were different from ours. We wanted a language that could be used, among other purposes, for research into language features; in particular, we sought the freedom for anyone to extend or modify the language, and to build and distribute an implementation. Turner, by contrast, was strongly committed to maintaining a single language standard, with complete portability of programs within the Miranda community. He did not want there to be multiple dialects of Miranda in circulation and asked that we make our new language sufficiently distinct from Miranda that the two would not be confused. Turner also declined an invitation to join the new design committee [...] Haskell owes a considerable debt to Miranda, both for general inspiration and specific language elements that we freely adopted where they fitted into our emerging design.
[1] P. Hudak, J. Hughes, S. Peyton Jones, P. Wadler, A History of Haskell: Being Lazy With Class. https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/research/wp-content/uploads/...
Re: Miranda released as free software
#74When I started studying CS in Hamburg, Germany, in the early 90's, they taught us Miranda to have everyone on the same level. Which was not such a bad idea: I had three years of C & five of C++ under my belt already at the time but never touched a functional programming language. Very few co-students had worked with Lisp and they did have an advantage. But they still had to new learn a new language. Trivia 1: I was g…
Fresh out of high-school and our first programming course, the lecturer said something like "Ok all you smartarses who have mucked around in BASIC and think you can program, we're going to teach you Miranda!"
Re: Miranda released as free software
#75You've at least heard of (if not used) a programming language heavily inspired by Miranda: Haskell. A lot of things about Miranda were really interesting; it reflects modern languages in some ways, but looks completely foreign in other ways. Like Haskell, whitespace was significant; unlike Haskell, it was fast. Really fast. It was one of the pioneering purely-functional languages, but seems to have been mostly forgot…
Are there any more modern functional languages that are as fast or faster?
Not even joking.
Re: Miranda released as free software
#76If you would make a new language today you would design for readability above all else. Because modern software are huge, while programs back in the day was small.
So, basically, COBOL?
Re: Miranda released as free software
#77When I started studying CS in Hamburg, Germany, in the early 90's, they taught us Miranda to have everyone on the same level. Which was not such a bad idea: I had three years of C & five of C++ under my belt already at the time but never touched a functional programming language. Very few co-students had worked with Lisp and they did have an advantage. But they still had to new learn a new language. Trivia 1: I was g…
nit: "eyesaw" -> "eyesore" (unless "eyesaw" was deliberate -- pretty evocative!)
Re: Miranda released as free software
#78When I started studying CS in Hamburg, Germany, in the early 90's, they taught us Miranda to have everyone on the same level. Which was not such a bad idea: I had three years of C & five of C++ under my belt already at the time but never touched a functional programming language. Very few co-students had worked with Lisp and they did have an advantage. But they still had to new learn a new language. Trivia 1: I was g…
Re: Miranda released as free software
#79You've at least heard of (if not used) a programming language heavily inspired by Miranda: Haskell. A lot of things about Miranda were really interesting; it reflects modern languages in some ways, but looks completely foreign in other ways. Like Haskell, whitespace was significant; unlike Haskell, it was fast. Really fast. It was one of the pioneering purely-functional languages, but seems to have been mostly forgot…
Are there any more modern functional languages that are as fast or faster?
Re: Miranda released as free software
#80You've at least heard of (if not used) a programming language heavily inspired by Miranda: Haskell. A lot of things about Miranda were really interesting; it reflects modern languages in some ways, but looks completely foreign in other ways. Like Haskell, whitespace was significant; unlike Haskell, it was fast. Really fast. It was one of the pioneering purely-functional languages, but seems to have been mostly forgot…
how come it was so much faster ? smaller semantics allowing for more optimizations ? or some obscure reason ?