There is an impact for some retail businesses. I tried shopping near market street for items that require a car to transport. I gave up trying to get through traffic, and instead did my shopping online. This is an acceptable trade off for me, and demonstrates how some retail businesses may need to adjust.
No ‘carmageddon’ on auto-free Market Street: study shows bikes and buses benefit
121–130 of 236 posts
Re: No ‘carmageddon’ on auto-free Market Street: study shows bikes and buses benefit
#122Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Most of them don't even hold a driving license Maybe true in Milan, but not anywhere in the US. Driving is near imperative in all areas of the country, unfortunately even in big cities, meaning everyone who can get a license, does.
I live in the U.S., and I've been surprised to hear from several people I know that their kids refused to learn to drive and get a driver's license. They all live in the suburbs, so it's utterly impractical and in every case took their parents completely by surprise. Their reasoning is, driving is harmful and passé and everybody knows we should live in dense cities and take public transit. They've never lived in a pl…
> the independence that a car would give them
If the car incentivises continued population of sparse suburbs, making them even more dependent on car travel, is it truly independence?
Re: No ‘carmageddon’ on auto-free Market Street: study shows bikes and buses benefit
#123Earlier quoted context omitted.
I also live in Graz now and as much as it loves to advertise itself as a bike friendly city, outside of the inner city center and student quarters biking here is very dangerous due to poor infrastructure cyclists have to share with pedestrians, cars or trams and cyclists not respecting any rules (crossing on red lights, never hand signaling a turn or a stop, etc.). Compared to the Netherlands or Denmark, biking cultu…
You've reminded me that there's a five-way intersection next to Uni Graz. Some years ago they basically removed all traffic signals and most signs, basically ceding the whole area to priority for pedestrians. When I first came across it the apparent chaos was a little concerning but after walking through that place on more than one occasion I was surprised how well it worked. I've not actually been to that part of to…
Yes, the intersection is alive and well without traffic signals. That's my favorite intersection in Graz, the five-way intersection of Zinzendorfgasse, Halbärthgasse, Schubertstrasse, Leechgasse, and Beethovenstrasse. The Google Maps street view has a nice view of pedestrians, bikes, and cars sharing the intersection. Buses also use the intersection, but I couldn't find any in the Google Maps view.
https://www.google.com/maps/@47.0761111,15.4503833,3a,75y,31...
My second favorite intersection is on the left side of Erzherzog-Johann-Brücke, where pedestrians, bikes, trams, and cars intersect with only one traffic sign (northwards on Neutorgasse).
https://www.google.com/maps/@47.0710439,15.4355343,3a,75y,20...
Re: No ‘carmageddon’ on auto-free Market Street: study shows bikes and buses benefit
#124Earlier quoted context omitted.
As a Dutchie blunders like the one you mention are so stupifying... Takes you a ten minute visit to NL to figure out why you need to separate modalities consistently, yet even as close as Germany and France cities are designed so obviously by people who never ever bike.
The curb is a hazard to cyclists, more so than a crash with inattentive pedestrians. The majority of Dutch cycle lanes are level with the sidewalk and how often do you hear of accidents (not caused by mopeds)?
> The curb is a hazard to cyclists, more so than a crash with inattentive pedestrians.
Numbers, man, numbers. Link to some hard data "or it didn't happen."
Re: No ‘carmageddon’ on auto-free Market Street: study shows bikes and buses benefit
#125Earlier quoted context omitted.
Is driving an imperative even in cities like NY and SF? Where would you even be driving to or from in cities like that? Where would you be parking? I wouldn’t attempt to drive in NY in a million years.
NY (Manhattan and certain areas of Brooklyn in particular) somewhat uniquely don't really require a car. Partly it's because owning a car is a pain/expensive and partly because of transit. But it's also because there's a general mindset that as a professional 30 year old, you're not really expected to have a car and activities and people's expectations are set accordingly. In other cities--and there are other cities…
I lived for over a decade in downtown SF without a car. I can't imagine having owned a car, or needing one, or wanting to deal with the hassle of actually using one. Things certainly got better with rideshares, but transit was abundant and taxis worked fine too (sort of).
Re: No ‘carmageddon’ on auto-free Market Street: study shows bikes and buses benefit
#126Earlier quoted context omitted.
You've reminded me that there's a five-way intersection next to Uni Graz. Some years ago they basically removed all traffic signals and most signs, basically ceding the whole area to priority for pedestrians. When I first came across it the apparent chaos was a little concerning but after walking through that place on more than one occasion I was surprised how well it worked. I've not actually been to that part of to…
Yes, the intersection is alive and well without traffic signals. That's my favorite intersection in Graz, the five-way intersection of Zinzendorfgasse, Halbärthgasse, Schubertstrasse, Leechgasse, and Beethovenstrasse. The Google Maps street view has a nice view of pedestrians, bikes, and cars sharing the intersection. Buses also use the intersection, but I couldn't find any in the Google Maps view. https://www.google…
Learning that there are people who have favorite intersections really made my day.
Re: No ‘carmageddon’ on auto-free Market Street: study shows bikes and buses benefit
#127Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's because most cars were taken off Market St in 2015: https://www.sfmta.com/project-updates/turn-restrictions-mark... Since then most cars on Market St north of Van Ness seem to have been Uber and Lyft. Now they're finally banned. If buses are actually running faster--not just a consequence of less traffic during the winter months--it goes to show how much Uber and Lyft have contributed to traffic in the city. T…
It still doesn't make sense that they let the "yellow" taxis continue driving on market. They are on average much worse drivers
> They are on average much worse drivers
How do you know?
Re: No ‘carmageddon’ on auto-free Market Street: study shows bikes and buses benefit
#128It would be awesome if you had something like a bicycle, only more comfortable that could hold you, a friend, and some of your things. You could enclose it to protect you from the weather, too. For longer distances, or people with disabilities, you could add some mechanical contraption in case you can't pedal that far.
That'll be the day.
Re: No ‘carmageddon’ on auto-free Market Street: study shows bikes and buses benefit
#129Earlier quoted context omitted.
Can you clarify your point? I read the article but don’t see any mention of trying this on any of the streets you listed. It looks like the city of SF made a good call here and the first part of your comment supports that.
Doing this for Market St. is basically free. There are no real risks or tradeoffs. Of course it’s a good call. But to frame this as a triumph against critics predicting doom is just weird. No one was seriously predicting doom on this one. The only people driving on Market are confused tourists. But then it’s going to be held up as an example for other streets that actually do have risks and tradeoffs.
The news media kept hammering the potential for cArmageddon.. which was weird. It was a non-story, and it still is, but I guess someone needs content to promote.
Re: No ‘carmageddon’ on auto-free Market Street: study shows bikes and buses benefit
#130Market St. has never been a significant thoroughfare for private cars. Of course there’s no traffic impact. Try the same thing on Mission, Howard, Folsom, Harrison, Geary, Van Ness, etc. and you’ll see a very different story.
As somebody who cycled Market Street every day for a few years, I beg to differ. Private cars were always my biggest safety worry. Per the MTA, it was 200-400 cars per hour during morning commutes. That's half what's on Mission, but it was still plenty to contend with.