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Etsy sellers are furious over new mandatory ad fees

mashable.com

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Re: Etsy sellers are furious over new mandatory ad fees

#171

Post by tomnipotent »

gnicholas wrote: post #164
tomnipotent wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then reduce available inventory. No one is forcing you to sell things you don't want. This is a fake argument.

I think it’s an argument you don’t understand. Also, just because you sell tables for $5k doesn’t mean you would want to “buy” another sale for $500. Just because the margin of sale price over COGS is high doesn’t mean that — after factoring in the cost of labor — it’s a high-margin endeavor. Edit: typo fixed

> I think it’s an argument you don’t understand

I've sold hundreds of millions of merchandise over the last decade. Think I understand just fine, thanks.

> doesn’t mean you would want to “buy” another sale for $500.

Of course you do, this is why it's called business. No one is on Etsy because they don't want to make money, and most people I know have excess labour and are willing to trade that for money.

> after factoring in the cost of labor

This isn't how cash flow works. You cannot get fixated on the margin of a single order, but on the blended margin across all orders.

Re: Etsy sellers are furious over new mandatory ad fees

#172

Post by iudqnolq »

adrr wrote: post #57
mreome wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Especially given that Etsy is supposed to be primarily for hand-made goods. Their top sellers are very likely already selling items at the speed they can make them, why would someone want Etsy to take a cut of their sales for advertising when they can't actually sell more?

That was the original model but that doesn’t really scale. It’s primarily another channel for mass manufactured stuff that your can find on aliexpress.

Is there a competitor that still is mostly handmade?

Re: Etsy sellers are furious over new mandatory ad fees

#173

Post by justaguyhere »

MicahKV wrote: post #43

I'm one of those sellers who is being forced into Etsy's new ad program. It is frustrating and obnoxious, but I can't say it is surprising given the policy changes they've been rolling out the past few months. It seems to me that online marketplaces like Etsy find their early success by bringing buyers and sellers together and just letting them do their thing, but as the marketplace becomes more established it's rela…

becomes more established it's relationship with sellers inevitably turns adversarial.

It is not just the market places though, isn't it? Twitter used developers to grow (generous API limits) then cut them off, tumblr used erotica to grow then started restricting, google allowed certain ads at the beginning then added restrictions... and so on.

How much regulation can you put in place for such behavior? Also regulation is expensive, selective and can be rolled back when the next gov comes along.

Would be nice to have some kind of decentralized solution for this...

Re: Etsy sellers are furious over new mandatory ad fees

#174

Post by gnicholas »

tomnipotent wrote: post #171
gnicholas wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it’s an argument you don’t understand. Also, just because you sell tables for $5k doesn’t mean you would want to “buy” another sale for $500. Just because the margin of sale price over COGS is high doesn’t mean that — after factoring in the cost of labor — it’s a high-margin endeavor. Edit: typo fixed

> I think it’s an argument you don’t understand I've sold hundreds of millions of merchandise over the last decade. Think I understand just fine, thanks. > doesn’t mean you would want to “buy” another sale for $500. Of course you do, this is why it's called business. No one is on Etsy because they don't want to make money, and most people I know have excess labour and are willing to trade that for money. > after fact…

The fact that you’ve sold things doesn’t mean you understand my argument. You’re sure good at convincing yourself though — good day!

Re: Etsy sellers are furious over new mandatory ad fees

#175

Post by masonic »

skinnymuch wrote: post #124
masonic wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's reminiscent of what StubHub did last year when, just a few weeks before baseball season began, they increased their commission on MLB tickets by 50% . Yes, fifty percent .

Interesting. Wonder if that was during eBay or new ownership.

Ebay.

Re: Etsy sellers are furious over new mandatory ad fees

#176

Post by [deleted] »

gnicholas wrote: post #174
tomnipotent wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think it’s an argument you don’t understand I've sold hundreds of millions of merchandise over the last decade. Think I understand just fine, thanks. > doesn’t mean you would want to “buy” another sale for $500. Of course you do, this is why it's called business. No one is on Etsy because they don't want to make money, and most people I know have excess labour and are willing to trade that for money. > after fact…

The fact that you’ve sold things doesn’t mean you understand my argument. You’re sure good at convincing yourself though — good day!

[deleted]

Re: Etsy sellers are furious over new mandatory ad fees

#177

Post by skinnymuch »

leeoniya wrote: post #39
gentleman11 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to think etsy was cute and fun, but if their tracking is that intense, and they treat their sellers like that... the warm and fuzzy feeling doesn't really stick around

> I used to think etsy was cute and fun to the tune of ~$100M? https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/etsy

Correction since I can’t edit the post from 1-2 days ago. Etsy shot back up and closing in on $7B market cap.

Etsy’s low was in early 2018. At under a $1B market cap.

It’s isn’t aimed as a response to OP. Just my own posting numbers.

Re: Etsy sellers are furious over new mandatory ad fees

#178

Post by [deleted] »

WalterBright wrote: post #167
rcxdude wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then another huge company grows out of the competitors and begins doing the same thing. Just because the company on top switches out occasionally (and during the transition there is a viable option which isn't abusive), doesn't mean the system is working.

People switching to another company means it works.

[deleted]

Re: Etsy sellers are furious over new mandatory ad fees

#179

Post by rcxdude »

WalterBright wrote: post #167
rcxdude wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then another huge company grows out of the competitors and begins doing the same thing. Just because the company on top switches out occasionally (and during the transition there is a viable option which isn't abusive), doesn't mean the system is working.

People switching to another company means it works.

Just because the abuser eventually gets replaced, doesn't mean the abuse stops (as mentioned, the replacement then settles into the same behaviour until another competitor comes along). If there's a non-abusive option 20% of the time, and 80% of the time there's only an abusive option, that doesn't strike me as 'working'. I would say the ratio would need to be 90% to 10% (i.e. any company starting to abuse its position loses it very very quickly, and the replacement does not engage in such behaviour for a while), in order for such a system to be anywhere near acceptable.

Re: Etsy sellers are furious over new mandatory ad fees

#180

Post by Hnrobert42 »

faintrain wrote: post #134
Hnrobert42 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For what do you shed tears? In your view, what would constitute lamentable treatment of small businesses?

No one is saying the treatment of small businesses isn’t wrong. Instead this treatment is a fact of life. We can complain or we can change it. The HN community complains about this sort of thing often but has been pretty unanimous in being anti-collective bargaining and anti-government intervention. If you’re not willing to advocate for change but instead complain, why should we pity you. 1. Build your own infrastruc…

Ok. But I would suggest that posting an article about unfair treatment of small businesses is a form of advocacy. Perhaps it is an attempt to spur folks into action not to solicit pity.

May I suggest that a more effective response than “I shed no tears for them,” would be “And this is precisely why we need more collective action and regulation. I encourage you to contact your representative about the bill HR 123...”

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