Live data from Hacker News

Etsy sellers are furious over new mandatory ad fees

mashable.com

151–160 of 181 posts

Re: Etsy sellers are furious over new mandatory ad fees

#151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When people say Europe does not produce behemoths Volkswagon, El Corte Englais, Credit Swiss, Ubisoft ... there's at least a few in each member EU state, just like the United States

Large companies, but none of these are anywhere near forming a monopoly.

The difference is, we are not shy about "protecting" our companies interests with the full force of our military and central banks in the US.

Re: Etsy sellers are furious over new mandatory ad fees

#152
I should read my Etsy email more often. Now I need to move my little sideline to a different market. Etsy is getting all greedy. Time to make my own website and cut out a middle-bot.

Since most of my sales are from my own word-of-mouth - a google ad is a worthless investment. All that will happen is someone who has a gmail account will purchase from me, google will notice this, present an ad then I'll get charged for the ad on next purchase. Nice little earner for Google and Etsy but useless to me.

Opt out? Sure, but I'm sure there's a stinger somewhere in the terms that will cost me in some obscure way. No thanks. Its actually worth me spending 40 hours figuring out an alternative. Then be done with them completely. More likely I'll replace Etsy with a simple investment of 5 - 8 hours.

For those curious, I sometimes make wooden furniture as a hobby. These are one-offs. Sometimes on commission/custom order but otherwise I usually sell one piece a week. So no, I don't use google ads etc. I'm not a mass-produce kind of operation and my customers know it. Its part of the appeal.

Re: Etsy sellers are furious over new mandatory ad fees

#153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I used to think etsy was cute and fun to the tune of ~$100M? https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/etsy

Etsy is a $6B public company now

my point is, they were never "cute", except maybe when it was just an idea in someone's garage and had near 0 brand recognition.

Re: Etsy sellers are furious over new mandatory ad fees

#154
post #150
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you don't like it, you move somewhere else. Yes, and if you don't like existing regulations you can just move to another country with different laws. No big deal, right? I do operate my own site in addition to selling on multiple marketplaces, but even with my efforts to diversify I am dependent, in part, on the sales I get from Etsy. I would be in a lot of financial pain if I lost that revenue stream, so "just…

Whenever you think about creating a new “regulation”, by which I assume you mean a new law , try to think of what the phrasing for that law would be and then think about the enforcement mechanism, the implications of the law as written, and the possible, even probable complications from the enforcement mechanism. If you come up with something that isn’t going to unfairly penalize startups and small businesses, you mi…

All of this may be true, and yet, it’s not a very strong argument against regulation. I’m glad that we have safety regulations, despite objections such as yours, because they have demonstrably saved lives.

Re: Etsy sellers are furious over new mandatory ad fees

#155
post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whenever you think about creating a new “regulation”, by which I assume you mean a new law , try to think of what the phrasing for that law would be and then think about the enforcement mechanism, the implications of the law as written, and the possible, even probable complications from the enforcement mechanism. If you come up with something that isn’t going to unfairly penalize startups and small businesses, you mi…

All of this may be true, and yet, it’s not a very strong argument against regulation. I’m glad that we have safety regulations, despite objections such as yours, because they have demonstrably saved lives.

I read their argument as against over-regulation, regulatory capture, and regulation moats like the ones Facebook is advocating for. An easier thing to imagine is if you got the regulations you wanted in place but at the end of the day they’re just preventing a thing you don’t like because it’s “new to you” and your business. Now if a startup wanted to come along and use what Etsy is doing _up front_ as part of its business mode it can’t, even if people don’t mind because they knew what they were getting.

Re: Etsy sellers are furious over new mandatory ad fees

#156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of the time when two sided markets gain market power through a dominant position, they still aren't a monopoly. They are an oligopoly employing game theoric positions that are worse than perfect competition but far from a natural monopoly. For example, even with Amazon there is Target and Walmart selling online and doing much more similar delivery times these days. The network effect of a two sided market defini…

Exactly! If the threat of competition holds prices below the profit maximizing levels for a monopolist you may have a local monopoly but it’s not a natural monopoly.

A pure monopoly is a textbook notion, like a frictionless plane. In practice, there's more or less market power, and thus more or less of a role for government intervention to correct it.

Re: Etsy sellers are furious over new mandatory ad fees

#157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They mean forced if they want to continue using Etsy, right? Or did I misunderstand the intent of your comment.

That means there is choice, which does not qualify as "forced".

Isn’t that being pedantic? Would any one think a pretty minor private company is forcing some one to do something by setting out rules beforehand?

No company forces bad work conditions on their employees either any more. Since you’re always free to leave. I’d think you can use force in cases like that though (IE at least previously some of Amazon warehouse worker issues)

Re: Etsy sellers are furious over new mandatory ad fees

#158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Etsy is a $6B public company now

my point is, they were never "cute", except maybe when it was just an idea in someone's garage and had near 0 brand recognition.

Ah okay. I didn’t understand the point initially. Etsy raised high funds quickly, but until you raise many millions, I’d think you can still be considered cute. Etsy though raised $20M+ in a Series D 2.5 years after the initial seed round.

Re: Etsy sellers are furious over new mandatory ad fees

#159
post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Extremely limited evidence? How about water or electricity grids? Railroads? (City) Streets?

There are examples of enduring competition of all of those bar city streets within a single city, never mind nationally. Even streets aren’t a natural monopoly. If they were you wouldn’t have patchwork metro areas divided up between different municipalities. The benefits of consolidated ownership would be so great that the Bay area would have unified like New York’s boroughs did to form the city of New York. Private…

I'd add that the FDA observed that market forces bring prices down basically in a very straight-forward linear way: https://www.fda.gov/about-fda/center-drug-evaluation-and-res...

We also know that as Google Fiber entered any city the incumbent ISP immediately decreased its price.

Natural monopoly is a strange concept. Its formal definition by Baumol: "[a]n industry in which multi-firm production is more costly than production by a monopoly". ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_monopoly#/media/File:N... )

It sounds like it's almost true in every case where you are forced to duplicate components/processes/efforts/structures, plus even with diminishing returns economies of scale helps the big companies.

Of course why the big incumbents get complacent/inefficient, why they turn to regulatory capture instead of R&D, is a different question.

Re: Etsy sellers are furious over new mandatory ad fees

#160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> who is already selling at the rate they can produce goods? This is a pretty good question. If you sell handcrafted hard maple tables that go for $5k, it only takes two orders and you're suddenly coerced into a program. However, if that program leads to one sale more it only cost $500 - that's a pretty good ROI. The problem will be if Etsy is transparent and can demonstrate the incremental value of this service, and…

> if that program leads to one sale more it only cost $500 - that's a pretty good ROI Not if you don’t have time to make another table...

Then reduce available inventory. No one is forcing you to sell things you don't want. This is a fake argument.
Post reply on HN