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Heathrow third runway plans ruled illegal: not consistent with Paris agreement

theguardian.com

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Re: Heathrow third runway plans ruled illegal: not consistent with Paris agreement

#11

Post by smashah »

dackroyd99 wrote: post #4
deugtniet wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you make things more expensive, less people will buy that thing. It will reduce emissions in the UK by reducing the airtraffic through the UK. Exactly the intended consequence.

plus we can invest that money improving bus services and rail networks, which will help poorer people participate in the economy. If you can't get the bus to work, you probably don't need a plane to Dubai...

What do you mean by improving bus services? Greater West London is the most connected outside of Central, it's TfL policy not to invest in better, cleaner, greener buses not because the money is instead going to LHR expansion.

Re: Heathrow third runway plans ruled illegal: not consistent with Paris agreement

#12

Post by smashah »

tonyedgecombe wrote: post #10
smashah wrote: post #7

I live right next to Heathrow and am starting a micromobility company to tackle air pollution in this end of town, and hold an (albeit expired) PPL. Air quality is bad here for humans on the ground due to the dilapidated 10 year old diesel buses that tfl allow in West London, and the vast amount of Single occupancy vehicles that commute to and from Heathrow every single day. With the disaster that is Brexit on the ho…

You can clean up buses, trains, cars etc. It doesn't look like we will ever be able to make air travel carbon neutral.

I'm more optimistic, with Rolls Royce's new ultrafans expected to bring +25% efficiency gains and BA retiring the 747 program there is some hope.

But I agree with you in general. The things that we can clean up we should, with funding from the expansion, policy from gov and properly structured incentives/disincentives.

The question I think becomes one of are we trying to protect the locals, or fighting against the idea of air travel. Unfortunately the latter does not achieve the former in this case.

Re: Heathrow third runway plans ruled illegal: not consistent with Paris agreement

#13

Post by ciconia »

smashah wrote: post #7

I live right next to Heathrow and am starting a micromobility company to tackle air pollution in this end of town, and hold an (albeit expired) PPL. Air quality is bad here for humans on the ground due to the dilapidated 10 year old diesel buses that tfl allow in West London, and the vast amount of Single occupancy vehicles that commute to and from Heathrow every single day. With the disaster that is Brexit on the ho…

More flights = more trains, buses, taxis and cars...

Re: Heathrow third runway plans ruled illegal: not consistent with Paris agreement

#14

Post by Retric »

tonyedgecombe wrote: post #10
smashah wrote: post #7

I live right next to Heathrow and am starting a micromobility company to tackle air pollution in this end of town, and hold an (albeit expired) PPL. Air quality is bad here for humans on the ground due to the dilapidated 10 year old diesel buses that tfl allow in West London, and the vast amount of Single occupancy vehicles that commute to and from Heathrow every single day. With the disaster that is Brexit on the ho…

You can clean up buses, trains, cars etc. It doesn't look like we will ever be able to make air travel carbon neutral.

You can get carbon neutral hydrocarbon based fuels from either direct synthesis or biofuels. Hydrogen is theoretically more efficient, but has significant hurdles.

Interestingly commercial aircraft are surprisingly efficient per passenger mile. Norwegian Air Shuttle is sitting at the top with 104 mpg‑US per passenger, thanks to its fuel-efficient Boeing 787-8, a high 85% passenger load factor and a high density of 1.36 seat/m2 due to a low 9% premium seating. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_economy_in_aircraft And that’s on top of generally being able to take more direct routes than land based transportation.

Re: Heathrow third runway plans ruled illegal: not consistent with Paris agreement

#15

Post by hordeallergy »

smashah wrote: post #7

I live right next to Heathrow and am starting a micromobility company to tackle air pollution in this end of town, and hold an (albeit expired) PPL. Air quality is bad here for humans on the ground due to the dilapidated 10 year old diesel buses that tfl allow in West London, and the vast amount of Single occupancy vehicles that commute to and from Heathrow every single day. With the disaster that is Brexit on the ho…

Heathrow should be scrapped and replaced with the estuary airport.

Re: Heathrow third runway plans ruled illegal: not consistent with Paris agreement

#16

Post by lonelappde »

tonyedgecombe wrote: post #10
smashah wrote: post #7

I live right next to Heathrow and am starting a micromobility company to tackle air pollution in this end of town, and hold an (albeit expired) PPL. Air quality is bad here for humans on the ground due to the dilapidated 10 year old diesel buses that tfl allow in West London, and the vast amount of Single occupancy vehicles that commute to and from Heathrow every single day. With the disaster that is Brexit on the ho…

You can clean up buses, trains, cars etc. It doesn't look like we will ever be able to make air travel carbon neutral.

Nuclear powered jet planes, like submarines?

Re: Heathrow third runway plans ruled illegal: not consistent with Paris agreement

#17

Post by smashah »

ciconia wrote: post #13
smashah wrote: post #7

I live right next to Heathrow and am starting a micromobility company to tackle air pollution in this end of town, and hold an (albeit expired) PPL. Air quality is bad here for humans on the ground due to the dilapidated 10 year old diesel buses that tfl allow in West London, and the vast amount of Single occupancy vehicles that commute to and from Heathrow every single day. With the disaster that is Brexit on the ho…

More flights = more trains, buses, taxis and cars...

The new TfL rail line from Paddington (and peeling off from Elizabeth line) is electric, so, good. LHR can have a ULEZ and busses have more than ample opportunity to be cleaned up. This all comes down political will and proper incentives to get locals to clean up their commutes.

Re: Heathrow third runway plans ruled illegal: not consistent with Paris agreement

#18

Post by toyg »

goodcanadian wrote: post #6

The title is a bit misleading. The court ruled that the government failed to take their climate change commitments into account in approving the third runway. They can go ahead with the third runway if they redo their approval taking climate change commitments into account (unlikely to happen as I understand the Prime Minister is against the third runway).

The PM was against it when doing that brought him votes. He’s long since wiggled out of any commitment. He could have scrapped it already if he wanted to. This is a PM who likes big infrastructure projects, he just needs to find half-decent political cover.

Re: Heathrow third runway plans ruled illegal: not consistent with Paris agreement

#19

Post by Robin_Message »

goodcanadian wrote: post #6

The title is a bit misleading. The court ruled that the government failed to take their climate change commitments into account in approving the third runway. They can go ahead with the third runway if they redo their approval taking climate change commitments into account (unlikely to happen as I understand the Prime Minister is against the third runway).

The Prime Minister was against it 5 years ago, when he was a constituency MP, on the back benches, in a constituency that would suffer more nosie and air pollution from another runway.

And who also supported an alternative of another runway built on reclaimed land nicknamed "Boris Island".

Re: Heathrow third runway plans ruled illegal: not consistent with Paris agreement

#20

Post by smashah »

hordeallergy wrote: post #15
smashah wrote: post #7

I live right next to Heathrow and am starting a micromobility company to tackle air pollution in this end of town, and hold an (albeit expired) PPL. Air quality is bad here for humans on the ground due to the dilapidated 10 year old diesel buses that tfl allow in West London, and the vast amount of Single occupancy vehicles that commute to and from Heathrow every single day. With the disaster that is Brexit on the ho…

Heathrow should be scrapped and replaced with the estuary airport.

*Boris island
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