11–20 of 29 posts
The changes around how IR35's being addressed seem a much bigger issue to me, not that even that will affect every startup.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
>What makes you say EU expats were easier target to underpay in contrast to non-EU ones? Easy - EU nationals had the right to work so no visa requirements at all, which would entail having a certain level of salary - now that will apply to all - how can that not be fairer? Though remote workers will always be a thing - especially in tech, so there are always ways around everything.
Don't think your argument holds water. I understand your non-EU expat friends are happy with less competition on the market, but the minimum salary a highly skilled non-EU expat had to have to qualify for visa was in the 36K ball park which is comically low for someone advertised as highly skilled on UK(mostly South of England) CoL. There is no way any highly skilled EU expat would work for less than that to argument…
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Don't fully agree with GP but if a business can only survive by underpaying people and especially expats, which is common in EU tech sector, then that business deserves to sink. Nothing personal with those businesses but some of them (you know who they are) are exploitative and only help to aggravate the ever increasing inequality.
"underpaying" - as compared to who? Who gets to determine that? It's very easy to scoff at "cheap labor" when in my experience it's far more often than not, the entitled , incompetents (they pair often) who complain. Just because someone feels entitled to a salary means they are worthy of it. In fact, oftentimes not!
If I'm trying to rent out a place and nobody wants it, then I need to adjust my price expectations if I want to rent it.
Many non-EU nationals working in the UK, and from those I've spoken with, it will become a bit easier and fairer for them and with that, all non-uk nationals as a whole. Sure, won't be able to underpay people so easily as they have done with EU nationals and that is a good thing. But I appreciate that cheap staff is always a boon for any company in whatever industry, but that's not fair on the people though really. A…
This underpaying of EU nationals relies on the naivete of EU nationals, but people get wise to whats going on fairly quickly.
Finally, the trade works both ways. People weren't just going to the UK for work. They were also being hired and sent their to facilitate trade with other EU members.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
>What makes you say EU expats were easier target to underpay in contrast to non-EU ones? Easy - EU nationals had the right to work so no visa requirements at all, which would entail having a certain level of salary - now that will apply to all - how can that not be fairer? Though remote workers will always be a thing - especially in tech, so there are always ways around everything.
Don't think your argument holds water. I understand your non-EU expat friends are happy with less competition on the market, but the minimum salary a highly skilled non-EU expat had to have to qualify for visa was in the 36K ball park which is comically low for someone advertised as highly skilled on UK(mostly South of England) CoL. There is no way any highly skilled EU expat would work for less than that to argument…
Totally agree, why would they want to work here when better opportunities and cheaper living costs, London is darn expensive, as are many parts of the UK. For me Estonia was always the best choice even when the UK was in the EU.
This is going to be a double whammy for the UK tech scene. First, by leaving the EU, the UK hugely shrinks a company's addressable market and reduces the incentive for anyone to come here to start a company instead of somewhere with a bigger market, like the US, Germany, or whatever.
Second, by making it as hard for EU citizens to get a visa to the UK as it is for them to get one the US, there's going to be a lot less incentive for people to come to the UK. The UK is a great place to live, but tech jobs here have a lot lower pay than the US and there is a much smaller tech scene. If the effort for moving to both is roughly the same, a lot of people are going to follow the money.
Go into any dev office in London and you are likely to find as many Spanish, French, etc. developers as British developers. By cutting out that supply of labor, it's going to get a lot harder to hire developers and there will be less developers around with ideas who have the legal ability to start their own company. Maybe that will push local wages up, but maybe it will just depress the tech scene overall and push more business to other countries.
Many non-EU nationals working in the UK, and from those I've spoken with, it will become a bit easier and fairer for them and with that, all non-uk nationals as a whole. Sure, won't be able to underpay people so easily as they have done with EU nationals and that is a good thing. But I appreciate that cheap staff is always a boon for any company in whatever industry, but that's not fair on the people though really. A…
As a former non-EU visa holder that was not my impression at all. Cheap eastern EU nationals is a thing. It's just not a viable thing. What you get is a bunch of EU nationals recruited from Hungary, Rommania, and Poland who will work for your underpaying position for 3-6 months. Then, once they qualify for unemployment benefits they'll leave for a job where the pay is better suited. This underpaying of EU nationals r…
Incorporating a startup in the UK becomes much less attractive after Brexit because EU markets are not easily accessible anymore. I think EU founders will take into account this first. If you add paperwork on top of that I don't see why founders wouldn't just incorporate let's say in Estonia and just travel to London on a tourist Visa to look for funding if needed.
Spot on - more so Estonia is by far one of the best tech hubs in Europe with many brilliantly staff that speak English and brexit or not, would be my choice over London for any EU tech startup brexit or not. [EDIT ADD] https://startupestonia.ee/why-estonia well worth reading that and shows how Estonia would be the best choice for any EU startup anyhow
2-3 years experience, web front end and/or B2C marketing
Earlier quoted context omitted.
"underpaying" - as compared to who? Who gets to determine that? It's very easy to scoff at "cheap labor" when in my experience it's far more often than not, the entitled , incompetents (they pair often) who complain. Just because someone feels entitled to a salary means they are worthy of it. In fact, oftentimes not!
Simple, the market decides that. If you have a job opening and nobody from the EU applies for your job at your advertised salary then your're underpaying and then arguing in favor of immigration visas in order to fill in your positions means you're exploiting. If I'm trying to rent out a place and nobody wants it, then I need to adjust my price expectations if I want to rent it.
I am one of the "evil" business owners you speak of, and there is no way I will pay the exorbitant salary expectations from (mostly) undeserving people. I would much rather outsource and hire people in Ukraine, Russia, etc. Sorry to break your heart, but If I pay $x then I would expect $ x+ value from hiring someone, that's the core of any business.
To use your analogy, if I am trying to rent out a place, and it's basically a tent & a sleeping bag (which in the current job market it is) , I would focus on making it worthy of the asking price or lower my ask.