Etsy sellers are furious over new mandatory ad fees • Hacker News Board

Re: Etsy sellers are furious over new mandatory ad fees

#91

Post by csomar » Thu, Feb 27, 2020, 6:53 AM UTC

MicahKV wrote: post #43

I'm one of those sellers who is being forced into Etsy's new ad program. It is frustrating and obnoxious, but I can't say it is surprising given the policy changes they've been rolling out the past few months. It seems to me that online marketplaces like Etsy find their early success by bringing buyers and sellers together and just letting them do their thing, but as the marketplace becomes more established it's rela…

> I feel like we need some form of regulation

That's crazy. Etsy is not the market, it is a market. If you don't like it, you move somewhere else.

We already have too much regulation that for some fields it's impossible to start a business without jumping through many hoops. Last thing we need is to start regulating on a per-business basis.

This is really a case of giving up your store brand/independence for convenience. Starting an online store is not hard these days, everybody should host their own if they are serious about their business.

Re: Etsy sellers are furious over new mandatory ad fees

#92

Post by rhacker » Thu, Feb 27, 2020, 7:27 AM UTC

csomar wrote: post #91

MicahKV wrote: post #43

I'm one of those sellers who is being forced into Etsy's new ad program. It is frustrating and obnoxious, but I can't say it is surprising given the policy changes they've been rolling out the past few months. It seems to me that online marketplaces like Etsy find their early success by bringing buyers and sellers together and just letting them do their thing, but as the marketplace becomes more established it's rela…

> I feel like we need some form of regulation That's crazy. Etsy is not the market, it is a market. If you don't like it, you move somewhere else. We already have too much regulation that for some fields it's impossible to start a business without jumping through many hoops. Last thing we need is to start regulating on a per-business basis. This is really a case of giving up your store brand/independence for convenie…

Probably could have been said better, and there's also probably no need for regulation but at least people should be fighting back.

But ultimately the suggestion to build your own is definitely the best move you can make. Etsy will always focus on their own SEO before anyone else's.

Re: Etsy sellers are furious over new mandatory ad fees

#93

Post by csomar » Thu, Feb 27, 2020, 7:50 AM UTC

rhacker wrote: post #92

csomar wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I feel like we need some form of regulation That's crazy. Etsy is not the market, it is a market. If you don't like it, you move somewhere else. We already have too much regulation that for some fields it's impossible to start a business without jumping through many hoops. Last thing we need is to start regulating on a per-business basis. This is really a case of giving up your store brand/independence for convenie…

Probably could have been said better, and there's also probably no need for regulation but at least people should be fighting back. But ultimately the suggestion to build your own is definitely the best move you can make. Etsy will always focus on their own SEO before anyone else's.

> there's also probably no need for regulation but at least people should be fighting back.

They can fight back by

> But ultimately the suggestion to build your own is definitely the best move you can make.

Re: Etsy sellers are furious over new mandatory ad fees

#94

Post by sneak » Thu, Feb 27, 2020, 7:56 AM UTC

MicahKV wrote: post #43

I'm one of those sellers who is being forced into Etsy's new ad program. It is frustrating and obnoxious, but I can't say it is surprising given the policy changes they've been rolling out the past few months. It seems to me that online marketplaces like Etsy find their early success by bringing buyers and sellers together and just letting them do their thing, but as the marketplace becomes more established it's rela…

> I'm one of those sellers who is being forced into Etsy's new ad program.

How are you being forced?

Re: Etsy sellers are furious over new mandatory ad fees

#95

Post by glogla » Thu, Feb 27, 2020, 8:01 AM UTC

csomar wrote: post #91

MicahKV wrote: post #43

I'm one of those sellers who is being forced into Etsy's new ad program. It is frustrating and obnoxious, but I can't say it is surprising given the policy changes they've been rolling out the past few months. It seems to me that online marketplaces like Etsy find their early success by bringing buyers and sellers together and just letting them do their thing, but as the marketplace becomes more established it's rela…

> I feel like we need some form of regulation That's crazy. Etsy is not the market, it is a market. If you don't like it, you move somewhere else. We already have too much regulation that for some fields it's impossible to start a business without jumping through many hoops. Last thing we need is to start regulating on a per-business basis. This is really a case of giving up your store brand/independence for convenie…

> That's crazy. Etsy is not the market, it is a market. If you don't like it, you move somewhere else.

Sufficiently big _a_ thing becomes _the_ thing because of economies of scale, network effects and "the software is eating the world" effects.

See Google, Paypal, Microsoft, Facebook, Twitter, and so on.

Re: Etsy sellers are furious over new mandatory ad fees

#96

Post by hapless » Thu, Feb 27, 2020, 8:26 AM UTC

Lucadg wrote: post #90

faintrain wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are your options? 1. Build your own. 2. Collectively organize with other Etsy shop owners to advocate with Etsy leadership. These type of policy changes aren’t a surprise anymore, no? We’ve seen them from Apple, Facebook, Shopify, Twitter, Amazon, EBay, etc for more than a decade now.

Maybe decentralized marketplaces could offer a solution in the long term. This one surely is a serious attempt: https://www.originprotocol.com/ We are working with them to build an Airbnb alternative but all sorts of marketplaces can be built.

Cool, decentralized lawbreaking as a business. This is better than a centralized criminal syndicate because ????

Re: Etsy sellers are furious over new mandatory ad fees

#97

Post by MicahKV » Thu, Feb 27, 2020, 8:27 AM UTC

csomar wrote: post #91

MicahKV wrote: post #43

I'm one of those sellers who is being forced into Etsy's new ad program. It is frustrating and obnoxious, but I can't say it is surprising given the policy changes they've been rolling out the past few months. It seems to me that online marketplaces like Etsy find their early success by bringing buyers and sellers together and just letting them do their thing, but as the marketplace becomes more established it's rela…

> I feel like we need some form of regulation That's crazy. Etsy is not the market, it is a market. If you don't like it, you move somewhere else. We already have too much regulation that for some fields it's impossible to start a business without jumping through many hoops. Last thing we need is to start regulating on a per-business basis. This is really a case of giving up your store brand/independence for convenie…

> If you don't like it, you move somewhere else.

Yes, and if you don't like existing regulations you can just move to another country with different laws. No big deal, right?

I do operate my own site in addition to selling on multiple marketplaces, but even with my efforts to diversify I am dependent, in part, on the sales I get from Etsy. I would be in a lot of financial pain if I lost that revenue stream, so "just move somewhere else" is not really an option.

Sometimes regulations are necessary to keep big companies (Amazon, Ebay, Etsy) from abusing their customers (including small time sellers like myself). Regulations may not be the answer in this case, but it's at least worth discussing.

Re: Etsy sellers are furious over new mandatory ad fees

#98

Post by QuesnayJr » Thu, Feb 27, 2020, 8:49 AM UTC

csomar wrote: post #91

MicahKV wrote: post #43

I'm one of those sellers who is being forced into Etsy's new ad program. It is frustrating and obnoxious, but I can't say it is surprising given the policy changes they've been rolling out the past few months. It seems to me that online marketplaces like Etsy find their early success by bringing buyers and sellers together and just letting them do their thing, but as the marketplace becomes more established it's rela…

> I feel like we need some form of regulation That's crazy. Etsy is not the market, it is a market. If you don't like it, you move somewhere else. We already have too much regulation that for some fields it's impossible to start a business without jumping through many hoops. Last thing we need is to start regulating on a per-business basis. This is really a case of giving up your store brand/independence for convenie…

It's not crazy. Being "a market" for a certain good is a natural monopoly -- there are economies of scale so that one market will inevitably drive out the others. I don't know if Etsy has reached that point, but it could someday.

Re: Etsy sellers are furious over new mandatory ad fees

#99

Post by WalterBright » Thu, Feb 27, 2020, 8:51 AM UTC

glogla wrote: post #95

csomar wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I feel like we need some form of regulation That's crazy. Etsy is not the market, it is a market. If you don't like it, you move somewhere else. We already have too much regulation that for some fields it's impossible to start a business without jumping through many hoops. Last thing we need is to start regulating on a per-business basis. This is really a case of giving up your store brand/independence for convenie…

> That's crazy. Etsy is not the market, it is a market. If you don't like it, you move somewhere else. Sufficiently big _a_ thing becomes _the_ thing because of economies of scale, network effects and "the software is eating the world" effects. See Google, Paypal, Microsoft, Facebook, Twitter, and so on.

All those companies are well aware that the worse they treat their companies, the more likely competitors will appear.

It happens all the time. Big, unstoppable companies become sloppy and complacent, and suddenly find themselves in free fall.

Re: Etsy sellers are furious over new mandatory ad fees

#100

Post by kkarakk » Thu, Feb 27, 2020, 8:58 AM UTC

groby_b wrote: post #79

IAmEveryone wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The value in that case might be the teaching moment when they realise they should have raised prices a long, long time ago.

Spoken like somebody who has no idea how that particular market works. Let's take handmade jewelry for an example, because I happen to know that somewhat. Unless you want to do luxury goods, you're talking mostly beading & wire wrapping. There's a very clear ceiling on the price by mass-manufactured goods from mostly Mexico. People still want to buy handmade in the US, because they can talk to the seller, because the…

None of this is true if you have the skills to chase whatever trend is ruling the market.

For eg custom keycaps - what should they cost? i've seen anything from 60USD for brass moulded ones to 200USD for resin ones with miniature landscapes in them(that sell out literally within 1 minute of listing)