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Monopoly was invented to demonstrate the evils of capitalism (2017)

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291–300 of 374 posts

Re: Monopoly was invented to demonstrate the evils of capitalism (2017)

#291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of these arguments also tend to elide the fact that even under the most "extreme" tax structures in place or being proposed in first-world democracies across the globe, wealthy people are still wealthy even with those taxes. In practice, no one serious is actually talking about forcing Bill Gates to give up all his money so it can be apportioned equally to every American citizen. If Gates had to pay an annual w…

> I'm aware libertarians believe it's the principle of the thing, dammit, but I'm truly weary of arguments which boil down to "Elizabeth Warren's wealth tax is philosophically indistinguishable from a call for nationalizing all industry." First, while some wealthy people remain wealthy, I'd guess there's a much larger impact on people who are becoming wealthy than those who are already super-rich. Second, as you said…

> First, while some wealthy people remain wealthy, I'd guess there's a much larger impact on people who are becoming wealthy than those who are already super-rich.

Given that her proposed tax is for wealth over $50M, I'd guess there is not much impact at all on people who are "becoming" wealthy.

> If you don't comply, a bunch of agents will bust down your door at 3 AM and haul you away (see the disturbing number of paramilitary groups many federal agencies now possess). If you resist, you get killed.

The number of first-world multimillionaires brutally gunned down by federal agents because they underpaid their tax is indeed countless. I hear this is a real problem in Denmark.

> This applies to income tax too, by the way. I couldn't care less how much good you think you can do with it, no one gets to take someone else's stuff because he wants to give it to someone he deems more deserving.

Living in a society is quite a tragedy.

Re: Monopoly was invented to demonstrate the evils of capitalism (2017)

#292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm aware libertarians believe it's the principle of the thing, dammit, but I'm truly weary of arguments which boil down to "Elizabeth Warren's wealth tax is philosophically indistinguishable from a call for nationalizing all industry." First, while some wealthy people remain wealthy, I'd guess there's a much larger impact on people who are becoming wealthy than those who are already super-rich. Second, as you said…

That is objectively wrong though, isn't it? The government absolutely can, and does, pass laws to legally take anyone's stuff for any reason it likes. If that is your bottom line, then almost every government in almost every country I know of overran it almost immediately. What we are discussing right now is....given that they ca, and do....under what circumstances we want them to do it. Think of it as a reality base…

Unfortunately, governments do indeed steal stuff all the time. That's why it needs to be as hyper-local as possible and why citizens should own military-grade arms. I think our arguments are jousting without clashing, so to speak, because I'm making a principled point rather than a pragmatic one.

Re: Monopoly was invented to demonstrate the evils of capitalism (2017)

#293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In terms of living space, the quality of life for the middle class is worse than 100 years ago. most urbanites of today don't own a chicken, let alone a cow, in 800's standard they're worse off than serfs.

In 1900, the average life expectancy for an American man was 48.3 Today, the average life expectancy for Americans is 78.7

That is mostly, but not completely, due to infant mortality rates.

Re: Monopoly was invented to demonstrate the evils of capitalism (2017)

#295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of these arguments also tend to elide the fact that even under the most "extreme" tax structures in place or being proposed in first-world democracies across the globe, wealthy people are still wealthy even with those taxes. In practice, no one serious is actually talking about forcing Bill Gates to give up all his money so it can be apportioned equally to every American citizen. If Gates had to pay an annual w…

> I'm aware libertarians believe it's the principle of the thing, dammit, but I'm truly weary of arguments which boil down to "Elizabeth Warren's wealth tax is philosophically indistinguishable from a call for nationalizing all industry." First, while some wealthy people remain wealthy, I'd guess there's a much larger impact on people who are becoming wealthy than those who are already super-rich. Second, as you said…

The income that is paid to you derives it’s value from the stability of the backing gov’t. I don’t think money is as “yours” as you think it is. Gov’t is already involved whether you like it not.

Re: Monopoly was invented to demonstrate the evils of capitalism (2017)

#296
post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your ignoring total compensation as wages are only one part of it. Total compensation at all income levels has vastly outstripped inflation over the past 50 years.

[citation needed] Median is $60k household. People making $30k each aren't having side perks thrown at them.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/25/us/politics/wage-growth-b...

Re: Monopoly was invented to demonstrate the evils of capitalism (2017)

#297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There have been many games that purport to demonstrate that free markets are a failure, all of them had to rig the rules to make that happen. Monopoly, for example, is a zero sum game. There is no possibility of increasing the supply nor making more efficient use of existing supply. Win-win solutions are pretty much impossible.

> There is no possibility of increasing the supply nor making more efficient use of existing supply. Sounds pretty much like the housing market where I live.

Ones where government zoning and regulation prevent any change, sure. But you can't really blame the marketplace for that.

Re: Monopoly was invented to demonstrate the evils of capitalism (2017)

#298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is objectively wrong though, isn't it? The government absolutely can, and does, pass laws to legally take anyone's stuff for any reason it likes. If that is your bottom line, then almost every government in almost every country I know of overran it almost immediately. What we are discussing right now is....given that they ca, and do....under what circumstances we want them to do it. Think of it as a reality base…

Unfortunately, governments do indeed steal stuff all the time. That's why it needs to be as hyper-local as possible and why citizens should own military-grade arms. I think our arguments are jousting without clashing, so to speak, because I'm making a principled point rather than a pragmatic one.

Im not sure you have thought through the consequences of citizens owning military grade arms.

It (arguably) removes the government as a threat, but replaces the threat with other citizens.

It seems to me that history teaches that in the absence of a strong government, people are taxed by whoever is capable of becoming a strong local warlord.

Somalia or South Sudan would be current examples.

Im not sure how that is better?

Re: Monopoly was invented to demonstrate the evils of capitalism (2017)

#299

Wow, I guess that was a revelation and something worth appreciating: the idea that if we just take a little bit of everyone's wealth and share it with the Commonwealth, then there can be a lot more wealth for all.

You can't tax yourself to prosperity.

Re: Monopoly was invented to demonstrate the evils of capitalism (2017)

#300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If sharing wealth leads to greater wealth, then why is it necessary to try to take wealth (by force)? Why don't people willingly give up their wealth so that they can make more? If it is possible to make more wealth by giving up some, why not let people choose whether or not they will share? If you theory holds true, then people who share will get richer and the people who don't share will get poorer and the problem…

Parent's "wealth for all" does not mean "wealth for each." Of course taxing the wealthiest to share with everyone results in the wealthiest having less than they would otherwise, which is why they tend not do do so voluntarily. However, if it makes most people better off, and makes society as a whole better off, then maybe it's worth it for the government to force their most-successful citizens away from their selfis…

>taxing the wealthiest to share with everyone results in the wealthiest having less than they would otherwise

No taxing the wealthiest results in the wealthiest moving their capital investments elsewhere.

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