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DOJ plans to strike against encryption while the Techlash iron is hot

cyberlaw.stanford.edu

11–20 of 347 posts

Re: DOJ plans to strike against encryption while the Techlash iron is hot

#11
Conspiracy theory: The NSA hamfistedly contributed to various leaks in the same way the CIA gave guns to terrorists, i.e. by providing various groups with the tools they'd need to break into American companies.

Now they can capitalize on it - "see, tech companies can't be trusted with your data. Trust us instead."

Re: DOJ plans to strike against encryption while the Techlash iron is hot

#13
post #2

You first DOJ. These folks want back doors so they can read everyone's traffic, but once you put a back door in an encryption standard, it affects everyone.

My favorite interview over the last few weeks is from NPR when a guy in law enforcement said that police don't even use that type of encryption (that normal people use) as if he forgot that his police radio, payroll, camera footage, information storage, are all most certainly protected via encryption.

Re: DOJ plans to strike against encryption while the Techlash iron is hot

#14
Why does this say that the DOJ has been pushing for this since 2016?

They have been pushing for some variation on this since basically forever. I first became aware of it back under Clinton with the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clipper_chip. And the debate has been essentially the same since.

Law enforcement wants to be able to break security, and promises that their super secret, super safe system will provide everyone else protection from evildoers while letting law enforcement find the bad guys. Cryptographers have maintained that when you create a back door, it is a question of time until it is found and publicized.

And the back door doesn't even have to be found to be abused. Because it will be made available to law enforcement and the courts. Which are surprisingly easy for third parties to subvert. And which are happy to build programs for themselves that break the rules that they are supposed to follow. (Snowden anyone?)

Success has gone to both sides. But on the balance, the cryptographers have been right.

Re: DOJ plans to strike against encryption while the Techlash iron is hot

#15

A small anecdote. A few years ago in an undergrad business class, we were having some discussion and the topic of encryption came up during one of my presentations. A student asked a question related to the ethics of encryption (I don't recall exactly what), and I was clearly confused by the question. To clear up confusion, the professor asked those who thought encryption was "bad" to raise their hand, and at least 6…

It sounds like a majority of the students had no idea what encryption was and because the authority figure (the professor) asked them whether or not it was bad they just went with it? I'm having trouble understanding why people would say mathematical functions are bad.

Re: DOJ plans to strike against encryption while the Techlash iron is hot

#16

A small anecdote. A few years ago in an undergrad business class, we were having some discussion and the topic of encryption came up during one of my presentations. A student asked a question related to the ethics of encryption (I don't recall exactly what), and I was clearly confused by the question. To clear up confusion, the professor asked those who thought encryption was "bad" to raise their hand, and at least 6…

What was the class about? What sort of majors were the attendees?

Re: DOJ plans to strike against encryption while the Techlash iron is hot

#17
MITM-as-a-business has been nothing but a slow motion train wreck destroying individual liberty. FAANG may bicker with the DOJ/NSA (and Ma Bell) about who is in control of all the surveillance data, but none of them are fighting for we the people. They're all just jockeying over who gets to rule.

The sane response to corporate totalitarianism is most certainly not government totalitarianism. Sadly with how the two political salesteams frame a false division merely over different flavors of authoritarianism, this has a good chance of working.

As always, the true answer is trustable software running under the control of users ourselves. Unfortunately, we will have to see how bad things get before most people are driven away from all of these centralized attractive nuisances.

Re: DOJ plans to strike against encryption while the Techlash iron is hot

#18

I’ve posted plenty of times on HN about the danger of the government being overly involved in tech and the last thing you should want if you value your liberty is more government involvement. I’ve also warned that giving government more power to “protect” people from big tech would come back to bite the very people who for some strange reason trust government. Every time I’ve been downvoted to oblivion. Now the chick…

So, you can't trust the government to oversee the tech companies.

You can't trust companies to protect privacy.

You can't trust voters/users to make good decisions on voting for the government or choosing the "right" companies to support.

That doesn't leave a lot of options, unfortunately.

Re: DOJ plans to strike against encryption while the Techlash iron is hot

#19
post #12

I might be ok with this, but not while incompetents like Trump are at the wheel.

If your system relies on "the right people" being in charge but does not guarantee that those people are in charge then it is a terrible system.

Re: DOJ plans to strike against encryption while the Techlash iron is hot

#20

A small anecdote. A few years ago in an undergrad business class, we were having some discussion and the topic of encryption came up during one of my presentations. A student asked a question related to the ethics of encryption (I don't recall exactly what), and I was clearly confused by the question. To clear up confusion, the professor asked those who thought encryption was "bad" to raise their hand, and at least 6…

It sounds like a majority of the students had no idea what encryption was and because the authority figure (the professor) asked them whether or not it was bad they just went with it? I'm having trouble understanding why people would say mathematical functions are bad.

> why people would say mathematical functions are bad.

People don't think 'encryption' is a mathematical function. They think it's like a radar detector in your car. "Why would you have it unless you intend on speeding?" [goes their thought process]

"Oh I use this frequently and things I do every day would be totally broken without it? Really?!" [is the realization we hope dialogue could bring]

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