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Assange Hearing Day 2

craigmurray.org.uk

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Re: Assange Hearing Day 2

#181

Post by r721 »

jstewartmobile wrote: post #170
baud147258 wrote: post #69

Why is he calling Bellingcat a warmongering propaganda operations and saying they've got a "source of state, corporate or institutional finance"? I though they were independent

Because it is. It's just some finance guy in his drawers making shit up over videos shot halfway across the world. Read up on this guy. One glance at his fat pasty face, and it's obvious that he's never been anywhere near a war zone: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eliot_Higgins edit: and since DyslexicAtheist has been grayed out, I will second his " hope the Russians slip him something into his tea one day. " to r721:…

So you support extrajudicial assassinations when it's someone you don't like? You would probably be up in arms if someone would write here "hope CIA slip something into Assange's tea one day."

Re: Assange Hearing Day 2

#182

Post by mnm1 »

This is a sham as his trial in the US, which is inevitable, will be. The US will not stop at anything in this case because leaking a video showing that US soldiers enjoy killing children is worse for them than actually killing children. This video showed the world what everyone already knew: that the US, and specifically the US armed forces, have no ethics, no morals, no qualms about killing children even when it's unnecessary. This isn't about endangering troops. This is about image only. Frankly, I hope the leaks did endanger troops. Scum soldiers that enjoy killing children deserve to die as do their superiors who almost certainly encouraged it and certainly didn't punish it. The US armed forces have no honor and they should be ashamed of themselves as should the government that starts bullshit wars and kills millions of innocents. This applies to everyone from the commander in chief to the lowest soldier. As a fellow American, I despise them for their service and they can all go fuck themselves. The video that Assange leaked is just one example of many of despicable behavior and the fact that they are punishing him rather than the animals who enjoy killing children is indefensible, immoral, and reflects on the entire armed forces institutions. Fuck them.

Re: Assange Hearing Day 2

#183

Post by have_faith »

dwild wrote: post #175
have_faith wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair point regarding it perhaps not being a token article. What I was trying to express is the lack of attention the trial is receiving, no one I know has mentioned it because the media has decided not to give it any obvious coverage, obvious in the sense that people realise it is something that is currently happening. The Guardian has chosen many mundane subjects to grace it's homepage that I think most readers woul…

The article he linked is in the frontpage of The Guardian right now, under Headlines.

This is correct, I'm now seeing it near the bottom of the homepage.

The decision not to the show it during prime news reading hours in the morning and mid day would have been a conscious decision though I believe. I think there's some apathy towards the case these days.

Re: Assange Hearing Day 2

#184

Post by bjornsing »

simiones wrote: post #75
mcv wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As pointed out elsewhere, the rape allegations are credible. And while I'm not calling him a right-wing zealot, and considered him left-libertarian for his dedication to free information and opposition to censorship, he did at some point seem to work with Trump and Russia in order to falsely discredit Clinton and get Trump elected. So again, there is evidence to support it.

As pointed out by the UN Special Rapporteur on torture, they were not, and the Swedish authorities did everything to indicate that they didn't care about Assange's answers, they just wanted to force him out of the embassy.

This is kind of how prosecutors in Sweden think though. They don’t want to ask some questions over the phone, to be answered by someone feeling physically safe. They want to lock you up for a day or two, to shake you up a bit, and then ask you the questions. It’s primitive as fuck, but kind of how it works here.

Re: Assange Hearing Day 2

#185

Post by lolc »

bilekas wrote: post #147
lolc wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's easy to say this was going to happen. (Especially after it happened.) But it's not a natural law like boiling water burning one's hand. Proteins are always going to be damaged by heat. But here we observe due process being violated. It's not a natural law that due process is going to be violated. Violations depend on attitude, checks and incentives. As a society, we can shape those to a large degree! We could ha…

> But that does not invalidate our complaints now! No but they are less appreciated. A sense of 'NIMBY' overcomes me reading the pitty for Assange. > Violations depend on attitude, checks and incentives. Yup, and given that we all knew this was going to happen, what did we say before ? — Nothing.

> A sense of 'NIMBY' overcomes me reading the pitty for Assange.

I don't get what you are saying. It sounds like we shouldn't complain about it happening here because it's happening in other places.

I count myself as part of a wider society of which the UK is a part. If we want to criticize other societies, like Russia for example, we better damn well make sure we don't run the same shit-shows of legal persecutions. I also have more influence over processes in my society, so it is logical to spend my efforts here. Lastly, I care more about due process in my society just out of self-preservation.

Your relativism is useless in deciding where to spend effort. If you don't care, sure, you don't have to. But don't piss on people that advocate for our liberties.

> given that we all knew this was going to happen, what did we say before ? — Nothing

We? You're projecting your own callous ignorance. Just because you decided not to listen doesn't mean nobody spoke up. I ask you to shut up rather than to invalidate the effort of those who risk their livelihoods exposing government malfeasance. We should defend them, not tell them they had it coming!

Re: Assange Hearing Day 2

#186

Post by hutzlibu »

kmlx wrote: post #123
jonathanstrange wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no way somebody could face in Germany for whistleblowing (or computer hacking, etc.) the same as what Assange is facing in the US if he's extradited. The alleged crimes they've stacked up against him have a maximum sentence of 175 years in prison. It's simply ridiculous.

aren't the US Gov claiming people died due to his hacking?

With no direct proof, as far as I know.

But they do refer to the complete publishing of the diplomatic cable, where apparently quite some irakian sources were mentioned in plain text, or with enough information to identify them.

So it is possible, that indeed people died of it. (killed by ISIS or alike) And this point is also the weakest in the defence of Assange in my point of view. (generaly speaking. I am not in favor of extradicting him)

Because the goal of the leaks was to uncover war crimes etc. But by just publishing everything, even though wikileaks worked with newspapers before to especially prevent informants from being exposed, he went over the line.

On the other hand, the whole invasion of iraq was against all international right. So from that point of view Assange did not care for informants for the US. (he actually said so, said some press people involved)

Re: Assange Hearing Day 2

#187

Post by bjornsing »

einpoklum wrote: post #171
jonathanstrange wrote: post #93

I think there is an important point missing in the debate. This is an extradition hearing. It doesn't matter whether Assange is guilty of the alleged crimes the US has come up with or not, what matters is whether he is expected to receive a fair trial in the US and whether the potential sentences in the US would be roughly on a par with what he'd expect for the same alleged crimes in the UK. For all I can see, this i…

> This is an extradition hearing. It doesn't matter whether Assange is guilty of the alleged crimes the US has come up with or not, That can't be true. For an extradition to happen, the requesting party must provide some evidence - not for a conviction, but to establish that the charges were made in good faith and that it is not unreasonable that the accused will actually be found guilty. States can't just frivolousl…

It’s perhaps not called extradition within the EU, but Sweden sought the “extradition” of Assange without even formally charging him with a crime.

Re: Assange Hearing Day 2

#188

Post by anonsivalley652 »

mft_ wrote: post #131
anonsivalley652 wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Excuse me, solitary confinement in a supermax prison for almost a year is torture, cruel, and unjust for a simple, nonviolent skipping bail charge. This sort of thing should've been 2 months at a minimum security prison in genpop at the most. This is purely political persecution by British toadies of American hegemony. If you can't see any of this, then you are blind.

Thanks for your informative (and measured) response. To clarify, I'm no expert on the Assange case, and was responding to the previous commenter, whose account didn't mention solitary confinement in a supermax prison for almost a year . If that is indeed the case, I'd agree it sounds pretty awful.

No problem, I can never quite tell how writing comes across to be calibrated reasonably.

In general, I only hope and suggest every individual determines to make themselves more informed (knowledge is literally a prerequisite of power), in depth and breadth, rather than haphazardly absorbing information to a shallow depth that is ambiently shoveled on them by commercial forces.

I'm not a reporter, but I know a little about it:

- Just days before Assange was dragged out from the embassy, WikiLeaks Editor-in-Chief met with would-be extortionists in Madrid, Spain (unnamed Ecuadorian embassy staff; either intelligence operatives or for personal gain) who suggested a payment of 3 million euros in lieu of releasing months/years of surveillance video & audio and stolen documents covering Julian's daily existence. On top of that, WikiLeaks collaborated with the Madrid police to conduct a sting operation that recorded audio and video of the extortion scheme, and it was referred to the Madrid's prosecutor's office. (I've checked multiple sources and it doesn't seem any of the Ecuadorian embassy staff were arrested, they probably claimed diplomatic immunity?)

- Assange was holding a book, History of The National Security State by Gore Vidal, in his hand when he was being illegally dragged out by British police.

- It is internationally illegal to revoke asylum once granted, unless the statements leading to its granting are disputed by new evidence.

- Julian's parents support him on Twitter quite often, and were at the latest hearing. They had to threaten to walk-out in order to keep Kristinn (WL E-I-C) from being banned for no reason.

- Pamela Anderson has been a vocal supporter. One could surmise that they may have "a thing." I haven't seen her in a while supporting Assange, guess she's too busy marrying and divorcing Jon Peters. ;-)

- Dragging Assange out from the embassy accomplished four goals for Moreno:

1) Silenced a potential embarrassing story from misbehavior of civilian or intelligence service personnel allowing WikiLeaks to make Ecuador look bad.

2) Got rid of "a stone in [his] shoe." (That's a direct quote.)

3) Appeased US interests.

4) Secured the $10.2 billion IMF loan package.

Wikileaks Editor in chief holds press briefing 143K views - Apr 10 2019

https://youtu.be/QFq38d3Q9qY

Spanish police ‘recover Julian Assange surveillance footage’ [and stolen legal and medical documents]

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2019/apr/10/julian-assange...

Re: Assange Hearing Day 2

#189

Post by logfromblammo »

anonsivalley652 wrote: post #112
mft_ wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tortured? I mean, some of what you describe is unpalatable, unpleasant, and maybe (IANAL) contrary to expected standards of the treatment of prisoners... but tortured ?

Excuse me, solitary confinement in a supermax prison for almost a year is torture, cruel, and unjust for a simple, nonviolent skipping bail charge. This sort of thing should've been 2 months at a minimum security prison in genpop at the most. This is purely political persecution by British toadies of American hegemony. If you can't see any of this, then you are blind.

I'd not put a demonstrated and notorious flight risk in minimum security. Low security, yes--not to be allowed freedom of movement until the extradition is decided.

That certainly should have already happened. I don't understand any legitimate reason for the delay.

Re: Assange Hearing Day 2

#190

Post by anonsivalley652 »

k1m wrote: post #157
mft_ wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for your informative (and measured) response. To clarify, I'm no expert on the Assange case, and was responding to the previous commenter, whose account didn't mention solitary confinement in a supermax prison for almost a year . If that is indeed the case, I'd agree it sounds pretty awful.

Here's what Nils Melzer the UN Special Rapporteur on Torture had to say: > Question: At what point does imprisonment become torture? > Nils Melzer: Julian Assange has been intentionally psychologically tortured by Sweden, Britain, Ecuador and the U.S. First through the highly arbitrary handling of proceedings against him. The way Sweden pursued the case, with active assistance from Britain, was aimed at putting him u…

And a 3 million euro extortion scheme as a cherry on top. This was for the surveillance videos/audio and stolen medical, legal and personal documents of Julian's that WikiLeaks EIC Kristinn worked with Madrid police to thwart Ecuadorian embassy staff from "selling" back to them. (I take it they claimed some sort of diplomatic immunity because I don't see any news regarding arrests.)

This is how the corrupt elites in power maintain their position, folks; by ordering the political, legal, military, police, judicial establishments to lie, cheat, and steal in order to conduct a sham trial. It's a farce, without legitimacy.

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