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Assange Hearing Day 2

craigmurray.org.uk

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Re: Assange Hearing Day 2

#121

Post by anonsivalley652 »

tyingq wrote: post #6
AndyMcConachie wrote: post #3

> Julian had twice been stripped naked and searched, eleven times been handcuffed, and five times been locked up in different holding cells. On top of this, all of his court documents had been taken from him by the prison authorities, including privileged communications between his lawyers and himself, and he had been left with no ability to prepare to participate in today’s proceedings. Still barely any mention of t…

It won't make the US press, because all of that is a pretty typical US jail experience, sadly.

Is it typical for the US to jail Australian journalists or publishers in another country in a supermax prison in solitary confinement for almost a year on trumped-up charges to seek extradition for doing their job? You're conflating different entirely situations. The US MSM won't cover it because the powers that be won't let them and the MSM doesn't want to outrage people how publishing and reporting facts has been perverted into a "crime" because it doesn't suit those in power. If you're Jesse Ventura, Cenk Uygur or Phil Donahue, that's off the top of my head who just MSNBC has tried to silence. Chris Hedges - NY Times is another. Please get a clue rather than oversimplifying or rationalizing your lack of big-picture understanding and desensitized lack of empathy.

Re: Assange Hearing Day 2

#122

Post by andrepd »

101404 wrote: post #11
AndyMcConachie wrote: post #3

> Julian had twice been stripped naked and searched, eleven times been handcuffed, and five times been locked up in different holding cells. On top of this, all of his court documents had been taken from him by the prison authorities, including privileged communications between his lawyers and himself, and he had been left with no ability to prepare to participate in today’s proceedings. Still barely any mention of t…

An interesting learning was, how to most effectively frame a person if you want them to lose public support. They first did the "rapist" framing. Making up a case that never existed and repeating it in the media all the time. Surprisingly, that didn't work as effectivity as expected. So they switched the framing from "rapist" to "right wing". That seems to have achieved the intended outcome with many previous support…

>So they switched the framing from "rapist" to "right wing".

I don't know who is "they" but the shift in perception didn't need any prompting from anyone. It was Assange that started acting as Russia's stooge.

Re: Assange Hearing Day 2

#123

Post by kmlx »

jonathanstrange wrote: post #100
101404 wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's no different here in the EU. After all, Sweden and the UK (until recently) are EU countries. I'm from Germany, and I can totally see things like this could happen here too.

There is no way somebody could face in Germany for whistleblowing (or computer hacking, etc.) the same as what Assange is facing in the US if he's extradited. The alleged crimes they've stacked up against him have a maximum sentence of 175 years in prison. It's simply ridiculous.

aren't the US Gov claiming people died due to his hacking?

Re: Assange Hearing Day 2

#124

Post by henearkr »

bilekas wrote: post #70
AllegedAlec wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He released evidence rightly so but compromising a lot of sources, methods and other info. It could have been released better. The info should have been released, my argument is not in defence of the original actions. According to him and his lawyers he did not. The arguments for this are expanded on in the linked article.

Well according to the other side, people died because of the releases. Information was lost, sources fled. https://text.npr.org/s.php?sId=712659290 So again, right or wrong depends on your opinion. Also again, I re-iterate and stress. I am not defending the bad actions of the US or anyone, I just don't believe that Assange is this 'holier than though' who needs to be coveted.

You seem to imply that, because there were dramatic consequences from the release, then he was guilty from the release. Again, it seems that the problematic leak (uncensored names) comes from a 3rd party, so your implication is like a sophism.

Re: Assange Hearing Day 2

#125

Post by anonsivalley652 »

spinglespingle wrote: post #7
tyingq wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It won't make the US press, because all of that is a pretty typical US jail experience, sadly.

the US has successfully become a 3rd world country. power in the hands of a few: check corruption at the highest possible level: check a gradually more authoritarian "leader": check a people who support such a leader: check military might used against political opponents: check enormous amounts of poverty cleverly ignored: check the list goes on. i suppose there is a time for every powerful nation to go into a deep d…

Yep. This is because of the vicious circle of money capturing power through greater wealth, greater corruption, and greater power. As Chris Hedges calls it: inverted totalitarianism. Autocratic plutocracy by force by other means. It's like how many Americans are chained to their jobs by healthcare and other benefits, but let's not call it slavery or indentured servitude (student loans) because anarcho-capitalism with "no government, no regulations and more greed will solve everything! It will just work itself out magically!"

Re: Assange Hearing Day 2

#126

Post by Fnoord »

bilekas wrote: post #45
AllegedAlec wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm not joking, what Assange did was at best 'cunty'. Releasing evidence of governments doing torturing, extra-judicial killings of journalists and children, which violate the Geneva Convention , as well as a slew of other materials isn't 'cunty'. > He could have been more careful releasing the information but he wasnt. In what way was he not careful? > My 'if its right or wrong' depends on your side of the argumen…

> Releasing evidence of governments doing torturing, extra-judicial killings of journalists and children,which violate the Geneva Convention, as well as a slew of other materials isn't 'cunty'. He released evidence rightly so but compromising a lot of sources, methods and other info. It could have been released better. The info should have been released, my argument is not in defence of the original actions. > That's…

> He released evidence

Allegedly, my friend. Allegedly. He has not been convicted of this. He's a suspect.

Re: Assange Hearing Day 2

#127

Post by Zenst »

have_faith wrote: post #120
Zenst wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is only so much space front pages have and much more impacting news events transpiring currently. The aspect as you say that even the Guardian has no mention of this upon its front page, should be testament to that, more so as they would be the first ones in many eyes to jump all over this if it was felt by them to be front page material over other content. However - https://www.theguardian.com/media/2020/feb/2…

Fair point regarding it perhaps not being a token article. What I was trying to express is the lack of attention the trial is receiving, no one I know has mentioned it because the media has decided not to give it any obvious coverage, obvious in the sense that people realise it is something that is currently happening. The Guardian has chosen many mundane subjects to grace it's homepage that I think most readers woul…

Agreed, though equally interesting how social media seem to not be picking up upon it either - at least going by Twitter trends in the UK: https://trends24.in/united-kingdom/

Though given those trends, kinda glad the front page is not composed around those trends as a whole and with that, we should be thankful as the news would be a far sadder place if that was the case.

[EDIT ADD] the BBC article https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51633303 seems like it could and should traction and if enough people click the link - it would actually make the front page given how the BBC has the top 10 articles being viewed listed upon its front page. So there is some people power input upon this that you can exercise.

Re: Assange Hearing Day 2

#128

Post by tyingq »

belorn wrote: post #114
tyingq wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It won't make the US press, because all of that is a pretty typical US jail experience, sadly.

From time to times there are detailed articles by writers that happen to have a brush with the US jail and legal system. I can't recall any where they could not shake hand with their lawyer and have their court documents, including privileged communications from their lawyer taken. The typical US jail experience is bad, but I don't think the evidence say it is that bad.

I've personally seen all of that and worse. Anecdotal, of course. It is worth noting that the experience varies wildly in the US. Every city, county, federal, etc, jail has its own set of written and unwritten rules.

Re: Assange Hearing Day 2

#129

Post by leftyted »

AndyMcConachie wrote: post #3

> Julian had twice been stripped naked and searched, eleven times been handcuffed, and five times been locked up in different holding cells. On top of this, all of his court documents had been taken from him by the prison authorities, including privileged communications between his lawyers and himself, and he had been left with no ability to prepare to participate in today’s proceedings. Still barely any mention of t…

If you read this post and think it's a bizarre exaggeration, consider that the UN declared that Assange's decision to confine himself in the Ecuadorian embassy was "arbitrary detention". Similiarly, Ecuador's decision to temporarily deprive Assange of internet access was compared to solitary confinement, supposedly tantamount to torture. Clearly there's a certain amount of hysteria surrounding this case.

Assange is not a political prisoner. The US is going after him for allegedly being involved in the exfiltration of state secrets, not for opposing or criticizing the US. Also, being strip-searched, handcuffed, and confined to a cell is not torture.

None of that is to say that Assange is guilty or that American legal reasoning holds up.

Re: Assange Hearing Day 2

#130

Post by henearkr »

bilekas wrote: post #109
A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The post is interesting. I had a similar revelation when my wife, a self-professed history buff, said she won't read My Struggle, because she will be put on the list somewhere. I initially found it amusing, but then I understood that even though she apparently does not seem to care much about privacy, she instinctively understands how weird things have become today. She does not want to address it, but she adjusts he…

> 1. Assange may be innocent, but it does not matter as the real verdict was already rendered. This is just a formality. 2. His pre-punishment punishment is not as bad as it could have been somewhere else. 3. Assange knew what he was getting into, therefore he does not have basic human rights ( variation of: you don't kick the bear argument ) I get what you mean and yes, you have a point. I guess I'm just surprised t…

My personal expectations were that this could not happen in UK... Honestly it feels more what I expect to happen in (nowaday's) Turkey, China or Russia.
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